Buggyjam Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 (edited) Annual oil change. Reading/has advice that worth switching to something thicker. It’s on 70k and has used Mobil One 0W40. these millers oils seem to get talked about. . Are they worth it? Not cheap. Which grade should I use? I’ve read 5W40 and also 10w50. But which product? Seems a little complex. The Millers CFS 5W40 says it’s for competition use and short duration. That doesn’t sound suitable. Or is that the one people use? Edited September 28, 2018 by Buggyjam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 Hi Buggyjam, I’ve only ever used Mobil Engine Oil (Super 3000 X1 Engine Oil) - 5W-40. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founder Beanoir™ Posted September 28, 2018 Founder Share Posted September 28, 2018 Only ever Mobil for me also, but regular changes. I’d be wary of running a heavier oil though personally. Hartech have been testing and runnning cars with Millers for a while and have reported lower friction and wear rates, but only the oils with nanotechnology. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggyjam Posted September 28, 2018 Author Share Posted September 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Beanoir said: Only ever Mobil for me also, but regular changes. I’d be wary of running a heavier oil though personally. Hartech have been testing and runnning cars with Millers for a while and have reported lower friction and wear rates, but only the oils with nanotechnology. It’s the nanotech one I was looking at. I think it’s called CFS. Which grade Mobil do you use? Most I’ve spoken to seem to think the 0W40 is too thin for the mileage it has on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 I would go with the recommended grade for your temperature range. Stick with the spec and change it often. The best thing you can do with any engine is change the oil often. I wouldn't go with a heavier grade unless you were having excessive oil consumption or some other issue related to its grade. I can't agree with the idea of "it's on 70k now so it needs thicker oil". It's just not that simple. I have an S2000 that's on 125k and is being fed the same 5W-30 oil - it still runs perfectly and so it should. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roscopervis Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 I think Hartech recommended the 10w 50 Millers cfs in response to concerns regarding bore scoring and not mileage. They feel that the 0w 40 Mobil 1 oil shears too easily to protect sufficiently against bore scoring, which they say occurs typically when labouring the engine in too high a gear or blasting a start after a prolonged high speed run. The Millers oil is extremely stable at temperature and can help protect at those situations and thus, in turn, help prevent bore scoring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggyjam Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 (edited) Both Millers and Mobil are synthetic oils available in the same grades so I think it’s two questions, the grade and then the manufacturer. Re following the manual, I already checked. It’s in there and 0W isn’t solely prescribed for the U.K climate. The manual says 0W40 for “all temp ranges” and 5W40 for “above -25”. Well I’ve never driven it below minus 25 so makes me deduce if that’s the limit for 5W I don’t need the temp extreme for the 0W and could use something slightly optimised towards a more temperate range. Be interesting to know what other folk in the U.K. use. I just bought mine with the grade it has in it. The other question of oil manufacturer. I know Porsche in the manual “recommend” mobil one. But realistically I know that’s likely due a variety of reasons not entirely related to mechanics. I’ve heard increasingly that Millers is actually a better oil with newer technology. I’ve no idea about this. This was all started off after a visit and tour round Hartech. And then my inde mentioned it (former Porsche tech). Just curious. Edited September 29, 2018 by Buggyjam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggyjam Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 Was going to edit my post but the edit button vanished. re grades, I’m talking about the first bit 0W or 5W. The viscosity rating when cold. The second number viscosity when running the - 40 seems optimum. I gather in an ideal world the less split the better to reduce shearing risk. I do run my car “spiritedly” when warm (20 mins warm up driving, 30 mins in winter) . I see a couple of you run 5W40. Supports me thinking I could move to 5W from 0W. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craiglm68 Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 Agree with the above....the shift from 0W to 5W was recommended to me as well, Millers is well regarded obviously, there are others as well that supply decent oils in this range. Tim from Opie who was fielding all the "Oil" questions on the PCGB forum a few months back rattled off a number of options, see below: I would use a 5w-40 synthetic and you will find those through the link below. http://www.opieoils.co.uk/c-656-5w-40.aspx Out of those, the best ones are the Fuchs/Silkolene Pro S, Millers CFS/CFS NT+, Motul Sport/300V, Red Line and Gulf Competition. The Motul 8100 X-Cess, Millers XF Longlife, Castrol Edge/Magnatec, Fuchs GT1 XTL/Supersyn, Shell Helix and Mobil Super 3000 are good, cheaper alternatives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 as others have stated a 0w is just not needed unless you live in a very cold climate and 5w is best choice. the best oils have "100% synthetic" marked on the bottle, a lot of the so called fully synthetic oils arnt actually fully synthetic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Windymiller Posted September 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 29, 2018 This is a very informative link on what the (0W/5W etc) numbers actually mean. https://wiki.seloc.org/a/Oil_Labelling_Explained 0W 40 and 5W 40 have the same degree of viscosity (in simple terms, it’s resistance to ‘flow’) at ‘normal’ engine oil temp (ie 100deg C). That’s the ‘40’ figure. Basically the hotter the oil the ‘more flowability’ (as an engineer I know this isn’t 100% scientifically correct before I get flamed by any fluid-dynamicists amongst us ?). The 0/5W is the viscosity at (cold) start-up - ie 0W flows more readily at cold(er) temp than 5W. So - the 0 or 5 W is only relevant ‘flowabilty’ at start up and running until the engine (oil) is warmed up to normal temp, and not an indicator of the oils ‘thinness’. Perhaps if you’re only driving April - Sept (ie warmer weather, therefore warmer ambient oil temp on start up) go for 5W, otherwise use 0W if using all year round. ???? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 For the 5W-40 grades of each oil: Mobil 3000 is ACEA C3 and API SM/SL/CF. Millers CFS is ACEA C3 and API SL/CF. It sounds like Opie wants you to buy more expensive oil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggyjam Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 1 hour ago, banjo said: as others have stated a 0w is just not needed unless you live in a very cold climate and 5w is best choice. the best oils have "100% synthetic" marked on the bottle, a lot of the so called fully synthetic oils arnt actually fully synthetic. Yeah, what you said matches with the figures in the manual too. As mentioned the Porsche manual for 0W mentions “all temps” and 5W “ -25. You’re never getting close to that in the UK. So I think a 5W40 seems the way to go and more optimum given the ideal is to avoid a split on the ratings to reduce the chance of shear. Seems backed up by folks experiences too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buggyjam Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 34 minutes ago, Windymiller said: This is a very informative link on what the (0W/5W etc) numbers actually mean. https://wiki.seloc.org/a/Oil_Labelling_Explained 0W 40 and 5W 40 have the same degree of viscosity (in simple terms, it’s resistance to ‘flow’) at ‘normal’ engine oil temp (ie 100deg C). That’s the ‘40’ figure. Basically the hotter the oil the ‘more flowability’ (as an engineer I know this isn’t 100% scientifically correct before I get flamed by any fluid-dynamicists amongst us ?). The 0/5W is the viscosity at (cold) start-up - ie 0W flows more readily at cold(er) temp than 5W. So - the 0 or 5 W is only relevant ‘flowabilty’ at start up and running until the engine (oil) is warmed up to normal temp, and not an indicator of the oils ‘thinness’. Perhaps if you’re only driving April - Sept (ie warmer weather, therefore warmer ambient oil temp on start up) go for 5W, otherwise use 0W if using all year round. ???? Thanks, I’d already a fair idea of the numbers in principle. Albeit not to any scientific level As mentioned from my researching it the 40 seems pretty optimum. I know Hartech use a 50 though and they did explain it when I visited but my memory is terrible . It’s the choice of viscosity when cold I was curious about. The manual states the limit for 0W is “all temps” and 5W “-25”. From what I can gather it’s preferable to reduced the gap between the two values of viscosity - if within safe limits - before and after the W, to reduce risk of shear failure caused by VI additive. I do drive all year round, but I’d never start and warm the car close to minus 25 in the U.K. so gathered 5W will have more than a safe viscosity for start even in winter and has the benefit of a reduced split. Seems backed up by what a lot of folk are using. I’m going to switch to 5W40 from 0W40. I might try the millers nano. Car isn’t on warranty anymore so that’s not an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrik Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I do a fair few track days in my S & have chosen to use the motorsport spec 10w/60 by Mobil. Zero issues for me (so far) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushman Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 I use Motul oils and coolant and find all really good. the oil is Xcess 8100 full synthetic 5w40, gearbox runs on Motyl Gear 75w90 and coolant is Inugel Optimal Ultra concentrate organic at about 30%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougle_turbo Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 On 29/09/2018 at 16:21, Buggyjam said: Thanks, I’d already a fair idea of the numbers in principle. Albeit not to any scientific level As mentioned from my researching it the 40 seems pretty optimum. I know Hartech use a 50 though and they did explain it when I visited but my memory is terrible . It’s the choice of viscosity when cold I was curious about. The manual states the limit for 0W is “all temps” and 5W “-25”. From what I can gather it’s preferable to reduced the gap between the two values of viscosity - if within safe limits - before and after the W, to reduce risk of shear failure caused by VI additive. I do drive all year round, but I’d never start and warm the car close to minus 25 in the U.K. so gathered 5W will have more than a safe viscosity for start even in winter and has the benefit of a reduced split. Seems backed up by what a lot of folk are using. I’m going to switch to 5W40 from 0W40. I might try the millers nano. Car isn’t on warranty anymore so that’s not an issue. I'm looking at oil options at the moment. What did you go for in the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windymiller Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Dougle_turbo said: I'm looking at oil options at the moment. What did you go for in the end? Hey Dougle, I had the Millers Nanotech 5w-40 ‘race’ oil fitted in this years service, on the recommendation of Matt at Porschacare. It has better stability characteristics at higher temps (ie on track), and provides sufficient lubrication on start up for most UK winter weather. As per Buggyjams post, i wouldn’t taking my cayman out in -25degC so don’t need the viscosity levels afforded by a 0W oil. Apparently Millers also offer an oil analysis service if you use their oil, which might be good if you were interested in checking if / what internal components were wearing and creating micro-‘filings’ in your oil. Potential ‘early warning’ of possible problems - used a lot in eg helicopter main & tail rotor gear-box oil analysis. 👍🏻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougle_turbo Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 7 hours ago, Windymiller said: Hey Dougle, I had the Millers Nanotech 5w-40 ‘race’ oil fitted in this years service, on the recommendation of Matt at Porschacare. It has better stability characteristics at higher temps (ie on track), and provides sufficient lubrication on start up for most UK winter weather. As per Buggyjams post, i wouldn’t taking my cayman out in -25degC so don’t need the viscosity levels afforded by a 0W oil. Apparently Millers also offer an oil analysis service if you use their oil, which might be good if you were interested in checking if / what internal components were wearing and creating micro-‘filings’ in your oil. Potential ‘early warning’ of possible problems - used a lot in eg helicopter main & tail rotor gear-box oil analysis. 👍🏻 So you used this stuff? https://www.opieoils.co.uk//p-115238-millers-oils-nanodrive-cfs-5w-40-nt-full-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx?gclid=Cj0KCQjw1pblBRDSARIsACfUG10dQF4MF7Sb6gVn8xcQNAT6psmEItCI98DdZpX1VEKiee7S8aJIkU8aApX9EALw_wcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windymiller Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Dougle_turbo said: So you used this stuff? https://www.opieoils.co.uk//p-115238-millers-oils-nanodrive-cfs-5w-40-nt-full-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx?gclid=Cj0KCQjw1pblBRDSARIsACfUG10dQF4MF7Sb6gVn8xcQNAT6psmEItCI98DdZpX1VEKiee7S8aJIkU8aApX9EALw_wcB Hi mate, yep that’s the stuff nanodrive race oil 5w 40. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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