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Brake pads


OllieG

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Hi guys,

 

Just bought my first Cayman S 2005 and need to change the front discs and pads. I’m not sure if I’ve got the pin or horseshoe type sensors, being new to these machines I’d like to ask for some advice?

 

Going for Sebro discs and textar pads.

 

Thoughts? 

 

Unable to to upload photo as image is too large.

 

thanks

Edited by OllieG
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in my 2006 S it was horsheshoe.

 

brembo pads are texstar in a brembo box and fractionally cheaper last time i looked.

sebro discs for the factory look or brembo if you like the discs with black paint.

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5 hours ago, banjo said:

brembo pads are texstar in a brembo box and fractionally cheaper last time i looked.

 

No?  Textar are the premium brand of TMD Friction and Brembo are just Brembo.  The companies are not related at all.

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41 minutes ago, Aaron said:

 

No?  Textar are the premium brand of TMD Friction and Brembo are just Brembo.  The companies are not related at all.

 

open a box of brembo pads and they are stamped textar with the same part number.....

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1 hour ago, banjo said:

open a box of brembo pads and they are stamped textar with the same part number.....

 

Pics?  I would love to see this.  Quite the bargain as Brembo pads are substantially cheaper than Textar.

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2 hours ago, Woodhouse said:

I've used Pagid discs and pads bought from ECP or CP4L on several Porsches and a couple of times found the pads to be Textar.  IIRC they are both part of the same group.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pagid & Textar are indeed, part of the TMD Friction Group...

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On 24/11/2018 at 07:43, Woodhouse said:

I've used Pagid discs and pads bought from ECP or CP4L on several Porsches and a couple of times found the pads to be Textar.  IIRC they are both part of the same group.

From what I am to understand from the Motorsports division of PAGID, Eurocarparts have license to sell items under the "PAGID" name. 

 

Now some speculators have accused them of using third party outsourced product under the PAGID brand name and claims have been made that they are not to the standard one would expect from Pagid. I have no evidence of this and it bears no relevance to me as my personal preference is RSL29s from the motorsport division and Brembo brakes. But as said earlier - Brembo is no related to TMD. 

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There’s endless mass-debating over brake pads... 😜

 

but this link is to a decent 2017 test review of textar pads. I’ve also seen a similar one somewhere for 2018, but can’t find it now. I also read that for ‘legal reasons’ the competitors names had to be removed, but I suspect it will be the usual players - eg mintex, brembo, ferrodo (baggins 😉). 

 

https://tmdfriction.com/textar-aftermarket-brake-pads-achieve-best-results-in-strict-ams-braking-test/

 

obviously this a test of normal roads pads, not track/race specific pads, which have different characteristics. But my takeaway from it is, if you just want good quality ‘normal’ road pads, Textar are as good (or better in fact) than the rest.... 🤔

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My thoughts on Textar brake pads:

 

I was at Silverstone today running DS1.11s (race pads) and after around 20 laps (not in one go, but total laps) I started to get brake judder. Went into the pits to check everything over, wheel bolts, spacers, calliper bolts. All fine. Decided to remove the spacers, still the same. My conclusion was that I'd either warped the Sebro high carbon discs or the pads were at fault.

 

So I changed the DS1.11s for the Textar spare pads I have (fronts only, rears stayed Ds1.11). Firstly, after a couple of laps, the judder stopped completely. Secondly, although they were slightly more spongy and the initial bite isn't as hard as the DS1.11s, they were actually very good and didn't overheat or suffer any fade after a 12 lap stint on the Silverstone national circuit - (I was pushing and the track had a dry line.)

 

Needless to say, I was very impressed and left wondering why I had paid £200 for the DS1.11s. I should also add that I'm running stainless steel lines and Motul RBF 660 fluid. Without the fluid and lines, I suffered brake fade after just one lap at Bedford.

 

 

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15 hours ago, Dougle_turbo said:

My thoughts on Textar brake pads:

 

I was at Silverstone today running DS1.11s (race pads) and after around 20 laps (not in one go, but total laps) I started to get brake judder. Went into the pits to check everything over, wheel bolts, spacers, calliper bolts. All fine. Decided to remove the spacers, still the same. My conclusion was that I'd either warped the Sebro high carbon discs or the pads were at fault.

 

So I changed the DS1.11s for the Textar spare pads I have (fronts only, rears stayed Ds1.11). Firstly, after a couple of laps, the judder stopped completely. Secondly, although they were slightly more spongy and the initial bite isn't as hard as the DS1.11s, they were actually very good and didn't overheat or suffer any fade after a 12 lap stint on the Silverstone national circuit - (I was pushing and the track had a dry line.)

 

Needless to say, I was very impressed and left wondering why I had paid £200 for the DS1.11s. I should also add that I'm running stainless steel lines and Motul RBF 660 fluid. Without the fluid and lines, I suffered brake fade after just one lap at Bedford.

 

 

Glad to hear you got on well at Silverstone once the pads were changed. How was the Chassis with the new setup?

 

Sounds like your DS1.11s left pad deposits on the disc giving you the judder (the frictions of the disc changes where the pad material has been transferred onto the disc and the car slows down more momentarily as this section of the disc passes through the caliper). Switching to Textar pads would have removed these deposits. 

 

I ran DS1.11s on my MeganeSport and found them brilliant albeit not very refined. I'll be sticking Pagid RS19s in the R come march along with the GT3 Cooling. 

Edited by Sam@IoM
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6 hours ago, Sam@IoM said:

Glad to hear you got on well at Silverstone once the pads were changed. How was the Chassis with the new setup?

 

Sounds like your DS1.11s left pad deposits on the disc giving you the judder (the frictions of the disc changes where the pad material has been transferred onto the disc and the car slows down more momentarily as this section of the disc passes through the caliper). Switching to Textar pads would have removed these deposits. 

 

I ran DS1.11s on my MeganeSport and found them brilliant albeit not very refined. I'll be sticking Pagid RS19s in the R come march along with the GT3 Cooling. 

 

Exactly what I was thinking Sam. I'm wondering if the DS1.11s aren't being worked hard enough under normal driving and are leaving deposits. Do you get any squeal with the RS19S? I ran DS1.11s on the Clio track car and they were great, but as you say definitely not refined!

 

The car felt excellent with the new geo set up and spacers. It was very slippery early on and I don't have much experience driving the car in the wet, so I was circulating pretty slowly (not to mention not having driven Silverstone national) Once a dry line appeared I had a lot more confidence and the car was great, nicely balanced with good turn in. Bring on Spring for some more track outings!

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3 hours ago, Dougle_turbo said:

 

Exactly what I was thinking Sam. I'm wondering if the DS1.11s aren't being worked hard enough under normal driving and are leaving deposits. Do you get any squeal with the RS19S? I ran DS1.11s on the Clio track car and they were great, but as you say definitely not refined!

 

The car felt excellent with the new geo set up and spacers. It was very slippery early on and I don't have much experience driving the car in the wet, so I was circulating pretty slowly (not to mention not having driven Silverstone national) Once a dry line appeared I had a lot more confidence and the car was great, nicely balanced with good turn in. Bring on Spring for some more track outings!

 

I'm not sure about the squeal on the RS19s. The standard brake pads have 2x mass dampers per pad and an antivibration shim on the back. As TMD make the standard parts and they make the Pagid ones I'm hoping they have the same countermeasures....... fingers crossed. 

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3 hours ago, Red Square Images said:

As discussed above the DS1.11 (an endurance pad I believe), first needs to be bedded in, in accordance to Ferrodo procedures and will "key" the disc as a result. Having run them on my R26.R I know that they provide a very even performance and drag coefficient (.46) providing they stay within their temperature range (200°-700°C).  The pad pickup, as it sounds like you experienced (warping of a disc is actually rare on large discs) is usually from "shocking" the pad by providing heat too quickly to a non bedded pad and disc combination. It can also happen by "dragging" the brake when the pads are cold creating unnecessary heat entering a braking zone rather than the more race like approach of threshold braking. 

 

Not being worked hard enough in normal conditions is unlikely to leave deposits. It's being worked too hard too quickly that does this. 

 

The new textar pad (and most likely a different compound will of course cut the old compound off the disc as it tries to key itself. This would have created the perceived remedy. 

 

Pads should be bedded in in all situations and ideally to a new disc surface free of previous compounds. DS1.11 is a race pad and the expectation of the manufacturer is that this is happening with their products as it is usual in their typical environment. Therefore judgment is being made on the product in an environment where it is not intended to be used (track days for example, where few will actually get a pad and disc combination up to the ideal working temperatures consistently). 

 

As for asking a race pad not to squeal? Well, thats out of the scope of design for a pad intended to be used where noise and vehicle harmonics are the least of the designers worries. ;)

 

All good practice nonetheless and its easy for me to pass comment having learned these lessons years ago (I am old) Hopefully this will help you in the future. 

 

Learn the characteristics of pad and how your driving might affect it. 

Then understand the specific process for bedding that type of pad in (they tend to vary a little from manufacturer to manufacturer and compound to compound. 

Some instruction on threshold braking and circuit driving characteristics also helps

And (as one famous driver was once told when he complained about his brake fade at Lemans) brake less!!!! 

;)

 

 

 

 

I'm sure you weren't meaning to be condescending, but it certainly comes across that way.

 

None the less, very good advice.

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