Dougle_turbo Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share Posted March 11, 2019 58 minutes ago, crafty1 said: Following this closely and some tangible gains from what you are saying here. Fwiw and this is only what I am told that to really gain power you need to lose the cats or fit free flowing 200 Cel jobbies. It kind of make sense as not much point increasing air intake capacity if the car is strangled on the exhaust side. I asked Gert when I saw him and he said much the same. I've got my eye on a set of these www.topgear.co.uk/porsche-987-2-cayman-boxster-manifolds-and-cats I'd like to get 200 cel cats, but the car will be too noisy for track work. I've decided to go with a DMS map, heading down tomorrow.....let's see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andrea Posted March 11, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dougle_turbo said: I'd like to get 200 cel cats, but the car will be too noisy for track work. I've decided to go with a DMS map, heading down tomorrow.....let's see what happens. I think your map will be a waste of money if you first don't change the restrictive exhaust. No point letting more air in if then can't escape as quick.... 200 cells cats won't add any noise anyway. I have catless manifolds and PSE and yes it is loud when the valves are on but other than that it's farly quite. My 2 cents 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Craiglm68 Posted March 11, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 11, 2019 8 hours ago, Dougle_turbo said: 😁 By dialling back, I kind of meant proper off. Great gains by DMS! What were the figures before the remap? If I could get 30-40hp extra now that would be great. I'm on a GT exhaust, BMC air filter, IPD plenum, GT3 throttle body. ##In the interests of sharing and full disclosure, I've attached the 2 maps...1st is DMS's (they applied a mutiplier when printing it out so I never got to see the "At Wheel" numbers, but they suggested my engine was "very healthy" re its outputs before the map, no doubt in part due to the filter/Carnewal combo). The 3 maps on the next photo are for the 3 runs on Regal's Dynos and are "at wheel" numbers. I was sceptical of DMS's outputs initially (though the Backside Dyno definitely felt a difference), the later dyno run at Regal was for peace of mind (and came up with almost identical numbers) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty1 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I have a similar dilemma ref noise on track and catless / 200 cel headers. When I get them done (eventually) I may sell the Carnewal exhaust and get something switchable or alternatively invest in a set of these for tracks days. http://www.actproducts.co.uk/product/si06-porsche-gt3-sliencers-pr/ Slighty off topic but relevant and a tip for noise tests. This weekend at Snetterton at the static noise test I turned off my A/C and depressed my clutch, the noise meter read 100db at 5,000 rpm, last time I was there and without doing the above my reading was 104.5 db. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Andrea Frasky said: I think your map will be a waste of money if you first don't change the restrictive exhaust. No point letting more air in if then can't escape as quick.... 200 cells cats won't add any noise anyway. I have catless manifolds and PSE and yes it is loud when the valves are on but other than that it's farly quite. My 2 cents Nope. Plenty of gains to be had without touching the exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougle_turbo Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 12 hours ago, Andrea Frasky said: I think your map will be a waste of money if you first don't change the restrictive exhaust. No point letting more air in if then can't escape as quick.... 200 cells cats won't add any noise anyway. I have catless manifolds and PSE and yes it is loud when the valves are on but other than that it's farly quite. My 2 cents I know what you're getting at, the cats are a restrictive part of the system. But the my understanding is that the standard back-boxes were also a restriction (now remedied). Along with a with the inlet modification (IPD + TB + filter + de snork) I'd expect to see some reasonable gains, I'll upload the graphs later. If I do get the headers replaced later down the line, then I'll get it remapped again then we''l know how restrictive they really are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougle_turbo Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 10 hours ago, crafty1 said: I have a similar dilemma ref noise on track and catless / 200 cel headers. When I get them done (eventually) I may sell the Carnewal exhaust and get something switchable or alternatively invest in a set of these for tracks days. http://www.actproducts.co.uk/product/si06-porsche-gt3-sliencers-pr/ Slighty off topic but relevant and a tip for noise tests. This weekend at Snetterton at the static noise test I turned off my A/C and depressed my clutch, the noise meter read 100db at 5,000 rpm, last time I was there and without doing the above my reading was 104.5 db. Great tip there Crafy! I'll give that a try. My biggest problem is on track at Bedford at the final hairpin, I'm right at the top of third as I go past the mic and I'm about 0.5 DB under the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougle_turbo Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 13 hours ago, Craiglm68 said: ##In the interests of sharing and full disclosure, I've attached the 2 maps...1st is DMS's (they applied a mutiplier when printing it out so I never got to see the "At Wheel" numbers, but they suggested my engine was "very healthy" re its outputs before the map, no doubt in part due to the filter/Carnewal combo). The 3 maps on the next photo are for the 3 runs on Regal's Dynos and are "at wheel" numbers. I was sceptical of DMS's outputs initially (though the Backside Dyno definitely felt a difference), the later dyno run at Regal was for peace of mind (and came up with almost identical numbers) Thanks for sharing these, I'll ask DMS what multiplier they are using and see if they'll print at the wheels and correct for the flywheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 The wheel/flywheel number shouldn't be a fixed multipler. The losses between flywheel and wheels will increase with RPM. You can't just say peak power is always 15% or 18% over wheel HP. A good dyno can be configured to calculate flywheel/wheel losses rather accurately at each RPM interval. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougle_turbo Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Aaron said: The wheel/flywheel number shouldn't be a fixed multipler. The losses between flywheel and wheels will increase with RPM. You can't just say peak power is always 15% or 18% over wheel HP. A good dyno can be configured to calculate flywheel/wheel losses rather accurately at each RPM interval. I see, that makes sense. Just got back from DMS.....who wants to see the graph? 😎 Edited March 12, 2019 by Dougle_turbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougle_turbo Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 22 hours ago, Andrea Frasky said: I think your map will be a waste of money if you first don't change the restrictive exhaust. No point letting more air in if then can't escape as quick.... 200 cells cats won't add any noise anyway. I have catless manifolds and PSE and yes it is loud when the valves are on but other than that it's farly quite. My 2 cents I'd have to disagree with you on how much extra noise having no cats will add. I know from personal experience on many different cars, and on the race cars I used to run that the difference is substantial. Thats also backed up by Gert Carnewal who specifically told me not to put in sports cats if I wanted to pass track noise limits, even though I was in his workshop at the time trying to pay him to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty1 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Dougle_turbo said: I see, that makes sense. Just got back from DMS.....who wants to see the graph? 😎 Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dougle_turbo Posted March 12, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, crafty1 said: Yep 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founder Popular Post Beanoir™ Posted March 12, 2019 Founder Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 that's a good result! Not that it's all about numbers...but we all secretly like a good dyno result 😎 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porsched eggs Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Great result, that said it was pretty strong beforehand too. Over 109bhp per litre with usable torque is impressive for any NA engine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dougle_turbo Posted March 13, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2019 As you say Nick its not all about the numbers, but I'm happy with the result non the less. I only wish I'd done a dyno run when I purchased the car. The car ran 348 before the map so on face value the (assuming I was at 320 before) the IPD plenum + throttle body, filter, de snork, and GT exhaust gained around 28BHP, with the map picking up a further 25bhp. I'm at Bedford on 1st April so will be able to compare some data from last time out (assuming its dry). That should give me a good understanding of the actual gains. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike3105 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Has anyone had an MOT with 200 cell headers and the carnewal GT exhaust? My car is close to the emissions on the new printouts you get, so I'm wondering whether I'd have issues with the headers on top of my exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougle_turbo Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 I might be wrong, but I'm not sure the back boxes effect emissions? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushman Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I think Dougle is correct. most of the emissions are controlled by the primary cats. the secondary's are probably fitted as standard to allow Porsche to sell in countries with even stricter emission laws than us 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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