DJMC Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Read to the bottom for some news from Michelin... I'm sure I'd seen posts elsewhere on Pilot Sport 2 or 3 where folks were fitting N rated tyres to their wheels? Must be 17s, 18s, or 19s maybe? Anyway, had a "chat" with Michelin today and the only N rated tyres for 20" are winters. MICHELIN – Johannes: Good morning, I am your Michelin advisor. How may I help you? You: Hi, I'm considering Michelin tyres for my Porsche Cayman. I have spoken to a technical adviser at Goodyear, as their F1 A2 tyres are N0 rated. He advises that Porsche specify the sidewall construction and this integrates with the car's handling characteristics... MICHELIN – Johannes: I can help you with making the right choice if you would like. Can you give me more specifications about your car? You: Would you agree it is sidewall construction that Michelin too builds specially for Porsche N rated tyres? You: It is a 2014 Cayman 981 2.7. Tyres are 235 35 20 and 265 35 20.You: I wanted to fit Super Sports but they are not N rated, whereas the Goodyear F1 A2 is. MICHELIN – Johannes: If you have a short moment, I will check the possibilities for your car. You: Thanks. Also, don't forget to answer this question: Would you agree it is sidewall construction that Michelin too builds specially for Porsche N rated tyres? MICHELIN – Johannes: For your tyre sizes I only found one possible tyre, which is a winter tyre. If you have one more moment I will check again in our database. You: I think Cup 2 for the 265 is N0, but not the 235 size. I'm surprised there are no "normal" road tyres? PS2 or PS3 maybe? MICHELIN – Johannes: The Pilot Sport Alpin is the only tyre with the N0 marking that can fit on your car. This is a winter tyre. However, the Pilot Super Sport is also available in your sizes. This does not have the N0 marking. You: OK, but for other tyre sizes you have with N0 markings, for other Porsche models, are these manufactured with Porsche's sidewall specifications? I feel that fitting non-N0 marked Super Sports I would be losing out on handling if what Goodyear say about their N0 marked F1 A2 tyre is correct? You: In other words... do you RECOMMEND fitting Super Sports to my Cayman? If not, why not? MICHELIN – Johannes: Yes, I can recommend the Pilot Super Sport for your Porsche Cayman. The tyre is especially designed to provide excellent handling experience.You: ...but what about sidewall construction? I'm favouring the Goodyear as they say Porsche have specified this. MICHELIN – Johannes: There is no legislation that says you need to have the N marking on the tyres for the Porsche. Our Pilot Super Sport is available for high performance cars, like your Porsche Cayman. You: OK, many thanks for your help. You: Bye for now. MICHELIN – Johannes: You are welcome. I hope I gave an answer with your satisfaction. So, not entirely happy with this answer I phoned Michelin just now and was fortunate enough to get through to Michelin UK's Technical Manager, Jamie. He's been there 18 years and has been involved in motor sport tyre applications too. He told me he COULD NOT recommend Super Sport tyres for my car. However, for my model and tyre size there is a NEW Michelin tyre out soon, the Pilot Sport 4 (PS4), This will entirely REPLACE the Super Sport (MPSS) and also the PS3 models. It will be N0 marked and is being made for the new 718 model as OE equipment but is also Porsche approved for the 981. He explained that the Super Sport was based on Le Mans technology whereas other Michelin tyres may be F1 or endurance derived. The new tyre will take advantage of the SS performance but with Porsche's input into its homologation. So, this gives me the choice of the current N0 marked Goodyear F1 A2, which was superb on my TTS, and the new technology PS4 which may well be my favoured choice seeing as most people I speak to prefer the MPSS to the GYF1A2, including my tyre retailer who has had both on his and his wife's cars. Jamie also added that fitting non-N0 marked tyres WOULD affect my Porsche warranty in his experience, if a warranty claim could be attributable to tyres. I seem to recall my OPC telling me the same thing recently, although forum posters elsewhere may say otherwise. Hope that helps those choosing tyres!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorscheGT4 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I only ever buy Super sports and don't give a s**t about N spec, I doubt the PS4 will replace the Super sport, we will see I guess atm they only sell 17/18" ps4's with a 19" coming so no 20" listed or coming atm just looks like a PS3 replacement to me. to quote one press release "As for the fate of the much loved Pilot Super Sport? This tyre will continue to sit above the Pilot Sport 4, catering to those of us who want an even higher level of performance in 19 inches and above." As for a warranty claim which could be attributable to tyres, I cannot think of one. I made claims with PSS on and it was not an issue. so go buy non N spec super sports still the best tyre on the market today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 Jamie is THE technical manager for the whole of the UK market. If he says the PS4 will replace the SS I have to believe him, despite what tyre reviews.co.uk say: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pilot-Sport-4-Press-Release.htm Ask him yourself?: 0800 591 859 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorscheGT4 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I don't like him already stating " he COULD NOT recommend Super Sport tyres for my car" :-) many people fit them inc. many fitting them to the GT4 as a winter/wet tyre. It's still one f the best tyres available today for a sports car. so that is a load of crap for a start. 2nd N is the Porsche number , 0 is the revision of the tyre, ie you cannot just ask for N0 as for example the last PS2 is a N4. the next goodyear will be a N1 etc etc I might phone later today and ask, and NOT mention the N number at all, then see if the PS4 is replacing the PSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founder Beanoir™ Posted January 28, 2016 Founder Share Posted January 28, 2016 Just to throw a spanner in the works I recently had the super sports fitted to my Cayman and went with standard vanilla non n-rated as they are not available in the correct size. I couldn't be happier and really pleased so far with them, a noticeable improvement over the PS2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorscheGT4 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 they would be an improvement, they still are imo todays best all round road tyre ;-) and the tyre which is on a massive number of Hyper cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 13 hours ago, PorscheGT4 said: I might phone later today and ask, and NOT mention the N number at all, then see if the PS4 is replacing the PSS. Yes, good idea. Maybe he was an imposter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I have never EVER (using a lot of CAPS tonight) heard of Porsche refusing a warranty claim based on the tyre rating, it's so over-hyped it's unreal. They certainly believe they have the right to, but thats different to actually refusing a claim in practice based on it. I'm confused also how the new PS4 can be replacing a high performance tyre (MPSS) and also a mid-range (PS3) tyre, seems odd to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 12 hours ago, Beanoir said: Just to throw a spanner in the works I recently had the super sports fitted to my Cayman and went with standard vanilla non n-rated as they are not available in the correct size. I couldn't be happier and really pleased so far with them, a noticeable improvement over the PS2. I was seriously considering the non N-rated SS until advised not to fit them by their manufacturer AND that they'd invalidate my warranty. But the PS4 sounds ideal and will be out in my size before I need to change. I did love the GY F1 A2s on the TTS though. And only 1-2mm wear after 10k miles! I'll think on it some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 6 minutes ago, SJ said: I have never EVER (using a lot of CAPS tonight) heard of Porsche refusing a warranty claim based on the tyre rating, it's so over-hyped it's unreal. They certainly believe they have the right to, but thats different to actually refusing a claim in practice based on it. I'm confused also how the new PS4 can be replacing a high performance tyre (MPSS) and also a mid-range (PS3) tyre, seems odd to me... Jamie said the PS4 was replacing the SS, but seemed to infer it was more of a coincidence that the PS3 was going at the same time, with the PS4 taking its place. I'm not clear about the latter, but he was 100% clear about the SS turning into the PS4. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 1 minute ago, DJMC said: Jamie said the PS4 was replacing the SS, but seemed to infer it was more of a coincidence that the PS3 was going at the same time, with the PS4 taking its place. I'm not clear about the latter, but he was 100% clear about the SS turning into the PS4. That would make some sense then. I bet they still continue to make the PS2, I swear that tyre will never die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 I asked him if this was general knowledge and he said no, not until the 718 launch, as that's their agreement with Porsche over a press release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founder Beanoir™ Posted January 28, 2016 Founder Share Posted January 28, 2016 15 minutes ago, DJMC said: I was seriously considering the non N-rated SS until advised not to fit them by their manufacturer AND that they'd invalidate my warranty. But the PS4 sounds ideal and will be out in my size before I need to change. I did love the GY F1 A2s on the TTS though. And only 1-2mm wear after 10k miles! I'll think on it some more. Did he say why he didn't advise it other than warranty issues, did he actually tell you there was a difference in the tyre construction or something material to support his advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 17 minutes ago, Beanoir said: Did he say why he didn't advise it other than warranty issues, did he actually tell you there was a difference in the tyre construction or something material to support his advice? I think it was purely because it isn't N rated and he knows this has caused warranty issues in his time at Michelin. Plus...why fit the SS when its direct successor IS N rated? That last bit is the very essence of my long chat with him about 20" tyres for my 981, that the PS4 will eclipse the SS in performance terms in every area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorscheGT4 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 they tow the company line, it's not worth salt what people say to the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Just to clarify the PS4 and SS situation I phoned Jamie, Michelin's UK technical manager, again just now. The "generic" Super Sport tyre, those that are not manufacturer marked (AO, *, N0 etc) will be discontinued in all sizes. Those Super Sports with a specific Manufacturer fitment, for Porsche or others, will continue to be made. So, in the case of my 20" 265 35 20 & 235 35 20 the current non-Porsche marked SS will be discontinued and replaced by the N0 marked PS4. He explained that the PS4 is superior to the SS in 99% of driving situations: Better in the wet. 15% to 20% better wear rate. Cheaper. Superior under braking. For the other 1%, out and out dry handling on a track, the SS would be slightly quicker. Perhaps 1/2 second around a track. For normal road use the PS4 outperforms the SS in every area. Hope that helps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorscheGT4 Posted February 15, 2016 Share Posted February 15, 2016 So the Super sport is still the better summer sports tyre then ;-) I would also say better braking in the dry from the SS ! if it's faster on track that means more grip which means better braking ! I am always a big fan of the 1% if that means dry handling :-) don't care about the wet much. or wear rates, or price. interesting to see what happens as the PS4 is only still for smaller wheels and looks like a replacement to the PS3 still ! The SS seems like the Sports tyre still to have then the CUP2. all seems odd to me and would force me to run Cup 2's on my road cars ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted February 16, 2016 Author Share Posted February 16, 2016 13 hours ago, PorscheGT4 said: So the Super sport is still the better summer sports tyre then ;-) If by "sports tyre" you mean on a track, then yes! For a dedicated track car though, wouldn't Cup 2's be better? Other than that, for "part time" track use and majority road use the PS4 would seem the better bet for all road conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorscheGT4 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 No I don't mean track tyre, I DO mean dry weather road tyre the SS still looks better ! I would never run a PS4 on track, prob melt it lol I'll stick to le mans 24 hour tech not formula E tech :-) interesting times if they stop the SS, still cannot see it happening, it's on most super cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masher964 Posted February 16, 2016 Share Posted February 16, 2016 If this all proves to be true there will be N rated SS available for the rears on the Cayman R but no SS at all for the front! We need to persuade Porsche to get the SS front N rated! (I did ask Michelin a while back and they said they'd do it if Porsche asked... they haven't!). "It is Porsche's decision if we homologate a fitment for their vehicles, in this case Porsche have not given us the go ahead to make the Super Sport in this size I'm afraid" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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