987 Gen 2 Prospect

[GlosRich]

Heard mixed things about RSJ in Slough, some people love them, others say they dont offer test drives, and the prices are fixed in stone, as the cars are so 'perfect' and well prepared.

[TritonII]

Thanks GlosRich , I have done some research on them as well as other prospective dealers.  You tend to find some negative stuff about everyone if you dig deep enough so I find you can only take it on balance with the number of positive views versus negative.  I run a business, not my own, and I know that there will be some customers who feel they have had a bad experience for one reason or another despite our best efforts to the contrary and even though we might have a different opinion on what took place or the reasons people will always see things through their own eyes.

 

But, as I keep saying, all opinions and views welcome, I'm definitely inexperienced in this arena.

 

I notice on the RSJ car versus others I have looked at there there is more black trim, apart form the wheels, the rear name badge looks black, in the cockpit there is black trim where others have silver.  Is this just customer specification when new or is it possibly a black edition?  I don't know what the black edition (if they did one at this age) had differently to standard.

[TritonII]

Ignore my last about it possibly being a black edition, some quick research suggests not! Guess it must be some customer options to replicate some aspects of the black edition.

[Windymiller]

Welcome Triton 2 🙋‍♂️
 

I bought a 987.2 S manual 3 years ago and absolutely love ‘her’ (even my wife calls her ‘the mistress’ 😁) - like you, it was the realisation of a (30yr long) boyhood dream to own a Porsche. 
 

I made lots of different spec lists and drove all variants (2.9 / 3.4), man / PDK, with / without PSE, PASM, sports design seats, full leather etc, and in the end got the closest I could find at the budget I had. 
 

You will obviously be at the mercy of the fact that you’re reliant upon how someone else has spec’d a car 8-11 years ago (such is the age of gen 2 987s now). 
 

Mine came with:
 

manual - love it (but if I was buying brand new as a long term keeper, and mindful of my left ankle getting stiffer with aging and years of running, I’d go PDK) - and will probably fit an OEM short shift lever for even ‘snickier’ throw (just as soon as I get to have a play with Dougle’s (gear) knob outta lockdown... 🤪).

 

full leather dash and doors - makes the 10yr old interior feel premium still even now. 
 

PSE - the NOISE!

 

PCM - the maps are all outta date and it’s only 4-digit postcodes, but at least it’s still just about good enough to get you from A to somewhere near B (you could always negotiate the dealer updating the firmware to 6-digit, and maps to latest versions. Would be ~£400 at OPC)

 

BOSE - sounds good, can be overly bassy at times. Get sound system plus at the very least (has the extra upper speaker in the doors). BOSE just adds passenger footwell subwoofer. 
 

since buying I have upgraded to the sports design (shiny metal 3-spoke) steering wheel - it’s a simple thing but it makes a massive difference to the tactile feel (for me) of driving the car, and again lifts the 10yr old interior into ‘premium’ look/feel. Was a ~£250 option if specd when new, now will cost you £1200 to retro buy new!!!

I wish I’d gone for PASM. The passive set up is lovely on road (firm enough handling yet comfortable compliant ride - for a sports car), but shows it’s limitations quickly on on track. If you’re never gonna trackday (for fun - very different to competitive track racing) then passive dampers will be totally good enough. But if you have even the slightest desire that you might occasionally want to exploit your cars true potential in the relatively safe environment of a track, then you might find yourself wishing you’d gone for PASM. 

 

I wish I’d found one with sports design seats (additional lumber and shoulder bolsters) - I think they’re more comfortable, and more supportive on track. But some say too tight if you’re broad shouldered. 
 

I think 19” wheels look good, though on passive suspension don’t possibly give the most comfortable ride. 
 

some other ‘nice to haves’ are body-coloured interior trim panels (eg console between seats, cup-holder dash trim) - again can lift the look/feel, otherwise there can be a lot of black plastic and leather. 

 

At around 50k miles and 10yrs be sure to check / test:

• brake pads and discs all round very likely to need replacing if not already done (£400 do yourself, £600 at an Indy)
• front coolant cross-over pipes likely leaking (£600 at an Indy)

• clutch might be on way out depending on how sympathetically driven (£1k at an Indy - £2k if flywheel needs replacing too). 
 

You gotta see and try all varieties that are available to find what does / doesn’t really matter to you. 

 

Even though I love my 987, if I had a spare £30k, I’d probably upgrade to a 981GTS - I do think the 981 shape is the pinnacle of Cayman design - all the curves of the 987, with the muscular stance of the 718 (but without the ‘pointy’ angles and rather characterless nose cone) (IMO 🤭). 

And I wouldn’t worry too much about prices, 987 caymans are never gonna be in the 964RS category of appreciating assets. 😉

 

Buy it, drive it, enjoy it - the smiles will be worth the pounds 😃👍🏻
 

Good luck in your search. 

[Dougle_turbo]

Reading Windy's reply reminds me, lower control arms. If these haven't been done, then make sure you set aside some money for them. They aren't a particularly tricky thing to replace, however if your car is still on original items the bolts will have seized into the housing. This added complication can add over an hour to each control arm swap. Original Porsche items are around £350 each (cheaper alternatives are available), then whilst they are doing it you'll think about refreshing the toe control arms as well. It gets expensive quickly - trust me!

 

You'll know if the control arms are on there way out because there is a tell tail squeak, either when driving, or just getting in and out of the car. 

 

If you're handy with spanners they aren't too difficult to change yourself (alignment will be required afterwards). I found that I could fit my small cordless grinder (without the  guard) in to cut the bolts off. But if you slip in there you'll likely cut something you wish you hadn't. This made the job nice and quick. I also tried doing in with a recip, it took forever (and £15s worth of blades) - it's the method that garages use.

[TritonII]

Thanks guys, great feedback.  @Windymiller really interesting to hear your thoughts having been through the same process and come out the other end, still smiling.  As you say, everyone has slightly different preferences and aspirations as well as the potential to change mindset at any stage from pre ownership through to long term owner about spec requirements and intended use for the vehicle.

 

So it is great hearing all the experienced views and trying to balance all of the thoughts.  Your last comment is interesting about £30K for a 981 GTS, do you mean £30K plus the value of your 987?  Cos I don't think £30K gets you a well specced 981 S unless the mileage is quite high.  I was watching one recently on e-bay that looked nice and was advertised at £28K but the mileage was over 70K and I while I won't be putting more than say 5K per annum on the car I just think why would I go for a car between 1.5 and 2 times more mileage just to get a model that is 1 or 2 years newer?

 

It is also interesting to read all of your views on the number of parts that need replacing at 50K, not a great advert for Porsche engineering.  In the 90's I drove a Nissan Primera and a Toyota Avensis both to over 100K from new in a couple of years each with nothing more than routine servicing.  My current Evoque is on 77K at 3 years old and has only had routine servicing, 2 headlight bulbs and just 2 new front tyres, still on original rear tyres...……!  I am pretty good with spanners so not averse to doing my own work so on the more basic stuff I can keep the cost down to parts.

 

Really appreciate all of your time in sharing your experiences.

[Windymiller]

@Dougle_turbo - re lower control arms - are these what are also often referred to as the coffin arms?
 

If so, then I had to get my rears done within first year of ownership. I went for Meyle brand (posted a review on here somewhere back in 2017), which are a very good European produced brand - not cheap APAC supply, and were about 50% of OPC parts price. No issues after ~15k miles and ~10 track days. Obviously you’re now running your ‘exotic’ mix 🤩😉👍🏻
 

@TritonII - re 981GTS, yes if I had £30k + trade in on mine. There are 8no sub £50k 981GTS on autotrader currently (2 at an OPC), all <30k miles!

 

My front pads and discs and rear pads were replaced at 37k miles before I bought her at 41k miles, I’ve since replaced rear pads and discs at around 51k and front pads at 55k, but that’s with ~10 track days as well. Remember these are sports cars that kind of ‘encourage’ you to drive them quick, which sometimes necessitates some hard braking too... 😉

 

The coolant pipes is an age rather mileage issue - once they hit around 10years the ali unions suffer from dissimilar metal corrosion with the steel pipes they connect to 🙄

 

And clutches can last for 100k miles if well / sympathetically driven - I think Woodhouse on here has experience of quite high mileage out of a 987 clutch. But again, you’ve no idea how the first 50k miles have been driven by the previous owner(s) when buying used. 🤷‍♂️
 

Porkers aren’t made of chocolate, but it’s probably ‘unfair’ to compare their mechanical component failure rates to other marques - e.g., My 8yr old Kia Sportage with 99k miles just had its first ‘major’ item failure and change (wheel bearing and hub carrier) - but I don’t spank my Kia round a track nor ‘give it some beans’ on quiet Sunday morning B-roads. 😉

 

I expect (massive generalisation alert) that performance jags / alfa / lotus and the like all suffer a greater number of ailments once a decade old than a (cared for and maintained) 987 does. 🤔

 

Keep searching and researching, there’s no rush.... 👍🏻

[Dougle_turbo]

11 hours ago, Windymiller said:

@Dougle_turbo - re lower control arms - are these what are also often referred to as the coffin arms?
 

If so, then I had to get my rears done within first year of ownership. I went for Meyle brand (posted a review on here somewhere back in 2017), which are a very good European produced brand - not cheap APAC supply, and were about 50% of OPC parts price. No issues after ~15k miles and ~10 track days. Obviously you’re now running your ‘exotic’ mix 🤩😉👍🏻
 

@TritonII - re 981GTS, yes if I had £30k + trade in on mine. There are 8no sub £50k 981GTS on autotrader currently (2 at an OPC), all <30k miles!

 

My front pads and discs and rear pads were replaced at 37k miles before I bought her at 41k miles, I’ve since replaced rear pads and discs at around 51k and front pads at 55k, but that’s with ~10 track days as well. Remember these are sports cars that kind of ‘encourage’ you to drive them quick, which sometimes necessitates some hard braking too... 😉

 

The coolant pipes is an age rather mileage issue - once they hit around 10years the ali unions suffer from dissimilar metal corrosion with the steel pipes they connect to 🙄

 

And clutches can last for 100k miles if well / sympathetically driven - I think Woodhouse on here has experience of quite high mileage out of a 987 clutch. But again, you’ve no idea how the first 50k miles have been driven by the previous owner(s) when buying used. 🤷‍♂️
 

Porkers aren’t made of chocolate, but it’s probably ‘unfair’ to compare their mechanical component failure rates to other marques - e.g., My 8yr old Kia Sportage with 99k miles just had its first ‘major’ item failure and change (wheel bearing and hub carrier) - but I don’t spank my Kia round a track nor ‘give it some beans’ on quiet Sunday morning B-roads. 😉

 

I expect (massive generalisation alert) that performance jags / alfa / lotus and the like all suffer a greater number of ailments once a decade old than a (cared for and maintained) 987 does. 🤔

 

Keep searching and researching, there’s no rush.... 👍🏻

 

Yes by lower lower control arm I mean 'coffin arm'. I never know which description to use as some garages refer to them in one way and other garages another! 🤦‍♂️

 

I also agree with you about the coolant pipes, certainly worth having a look through the wheel at the joints on show, you'll be able to tell if they're newish or the old items.

I hope all of this doesn't put you off the 987, it's quite a machine. But given their age, things like this are liable to start failing. I'm just trying to give you the information I wish I'd known when I was in the market for one. I guess it's also worth pointing out that if you can get a well priced 987 from Porsche with the full 2-year warranty, this will certainly mitigate some of these concerns (as long as you don't modify the car).

[TritonII]

Thanks both, @Windymiller, @Dougle_turbo, all sound reasoning and great to have enthusiasts with a balanced opinion and experienced eyes wide open to bounce these things off.  Some component replacement work for age related stuff doesn't phase me too much, in fact it can be nice to have some ongoing projects to do assuming I am going to stay away from performance modification, initially at least!  I understand the dissimilar metals corrosion problem, I used to compete in Land Rover trials and they suffered similar woes with the ali and steel.

 

So far this thread is keeping me on the straight and narrow, forcing my patience and increasing my knowledge and awareness, so all good and thanks.  I have nearly pulled the trigger on 3 cars over the last few weeks but in each case my information gathering and feedback has ensured I have really dug into the specifics of what I want and I have pulled back each time in the knowledge that impatience to get behind the wheel will ultimately be my downfall and I need to find the one.  The search, which in itself is fun, continues......

[GlosRich]

Make sure you get out and drive some when we are allowed. You may find you dont like it, unlikely, but best to be sure.

 

BEst to stick with Offocial Porsche Centres or the specialists.

 

Have you looked at Cameron near Bath, and Cotswold Porsche? Cridfords, 911 virgin are also worth a look.

[TritonII]

Thanks @GlosRich, I have driven a couple previously and have a friend with one, so I know the smile factor isn't an issue.  But of course test driving potential candidates is always a pleasurable necessity.

 

I've seen a few cars from Cameron, Cridfords put me off by advising that even after easing of lockdown they won't be offering test drives as they insist on accompanying you but won't due to social distancing challenges.  I will have a look at Cotswold and 911 Virgin as I wasn't aware of them.

 

Cheers,

[Shuey Chow]

Sorry to hi-jack the thread - but I'm also looking at a 987.2 S as my next ride (after deliberating whether to go with a Z4M Coupe or Cayman S.

 

I have a couple of questions with the 987.2

- Can I change the steering wheel with relative ease myself from the triangular air bagged porsche steering wheel - to the circular Porsche steering wheel (obviously I'll make sure both the steering wheels have either controls or don't have controls)

- High mileage engines - do they have a long life? i.e. I'll most likely only have a budget that affords me something above 70k-80k miles - and will be planning on keeping cayman long term, even if I get another ride in due course... whats the highest mileage 987.2 out there?

- For UK cars, is there any difference between the two different tax brackets the 987.2 3.4 falls in?

[Dougle_turbo]

Hi @Shuey Chow,

 

The steering wheel scan be swapped easily, you will need to disconnect the battery. I don't think I've ever seen a 987.2 S with anything other than a round airbag type wheel.

 

I bought my car at 69K miles. It now has 86K and it gets tracked a lot.

 

I wasn't aware any of the .2 S cars fell into different tax brackets - I thought that happened in early 2008 so all .2s would be in the higher bracket. It was certainly the case with the case with the B7 RS4 I used to have. Early cars were £255 and mine was £550 to tax.

 

More than happy to answer any more Qs. 👍

[GlosRich]

My 2009 987.2 base has the triangle airbag steering wheel, but yep most seem to have the round airbag.

 

I think its on the spec sheet of mine, so it must have been from factory.

 

The 2.9 base is £330 road tax per year.

 

The gen 2 engines dont have the IMS issue, and as with most cars, as long as they are well servicied they should do high mileages.

 

[Shuey Chow]

thanks guys.

@dougle_turbo

yeh with the lower tax bracket - I filtered on auto trader by tax, and there were a good few post 2009 caymans 987.2's (with 3.4 engine) with the lower tax bracket. 

 

I also checked on Parkers price guide - there seems to a selection of cayman s' from  (1 Feb 2009 - 31 Jul 2011) in the lower bracket (£330 per year) and same with the cayman r and the design edition.

 

https://www.parkers.co.uk/porsche/cayman/coupe-2005/car-tax/

 

Is this correct?

[Aaron]

The CR tests were performed with the car in second gear, which is why the tax is lower.  Pretty sure somebody sued Porsche and won about it.

[Dougle_turbo]

9 hours ago, Shuey Chow said:

thanks guys.

@dougle_turbo

yeh with the lower tax bracket - I filtered on auto trader by tax, and there were a good few post 2009 caymans 987.2's (with 3.4 engine) with the lower tax bracket. 

 

I also checked on Parkers price guide - there seems to a selection of cayman s' from  (1 Feb 2009 - 31 Jul 2011) in the lower bracket (£330 per year) and same with the cayman r and the design edition.

 

https://www.parkers.co.uk/porsche/cayman/coupe-2005/car-tax/

 

Is this correct?

As I'm sure you know the engine in the 987.1 S and 987.2 S are different. The 987.2 is DFI and essentially the same engine as the 981 (cleaner). The switch over happened in late 09 I believe. I'm surprised to see the the 2005-2006 cars in the lower price bracket, and I'm also surprised to see that the 987 S design edition in the higher bracket as that is a gen 2 car and I thought all gen 2 cars were in the lower bracket. Generally speaking 987.1 cars are in the higher bracket, and gen 2 cars are in the lower bracket. Does that make sense?

[Woodhouse]

Gen 1 cars registered before 23rd March 2006 are cheaper to tax than cars registered after that because the government changed the tax rates on that date.  All gen 1 987 S and 2.7 cars with 6 speed gearboxes (and maybe Tiptronics?) After that date are about £200 per year more expensive to tax, currently around £550.  As far as I know (happy to be corrected) all 987 gen 2 cars are in the same tax bracket as the early gen 1s.

[Shuey Chow]

Cool, yeh good to know the gen 2’s are in lower tax bracket. It’s a good 300 a year that I could spend on tyres / v power fuel Instead of giving it to Bojo and Sunak :)

[Windymiller]

@Shuey Chow there’s a link here on the cayman TV section for changing the steering wheel. I followed it when I swapped my ‘grey’ plastic wheel for the metal 3-spoke sports design one last year. Took about 30mins all in including battery -ve terminal removal and refit. 
https://www.caymanoc.com/cayman-tv/

 

just be aware - if you were changing from triangular to round style wheel you’d also need a new airbag Module (different shapes to fit the wheels) - so an extra cost to factor in. 

 

And i pay ~£29 pcm on tax by DVLA direct debit on a 2010 3.4S. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Windymiller