Mavrik Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Andrea said: And even with an allignment after istalling lowering springs the geo is still totally off. These cars run out of toe at the back, front camber remain the same while the rear gets nearly -2. Plus on top of that people put 7mm spacer front and 15 rear which basically the opposite of what they need. Love how all the above effectively create more understeer and overall reduced grip yet people have this placebo feeling that their car handles better. I wish people would understand that the only way is to use shimable LCA or top mounts at the front and adjustale toe arms at least. P.S. Whoever started this 7mm/15mm trend needs to be taken down 😆 Issue with internet is people repeat the same thing over and over without even thinking about why it's just wrong... I agree (to an extent) ... Lowering defo affects the geo & setting up after lowering is always a compromise as tweaking the camber will always throw the toe... OFC, adjustable LCA's with adjustable top mounts (Tarett etc) IS the way to go but most folk are put off by the cost. I also agree with what you said re the spacers... Invariably front spacers WILL induce an out of balance effect at speed no matter how "hub-centric" they claim to be! Or at best highlight wear in the suspension components. For most folk just wanting to enhance the aesthetics of their ride by lowering & not planning on tracking etc then a geo is essential to get within "the ball park" imo... All "racers" or "trackday guys" know that more -ve camber up front vs the rear is what's needed to address understeer that Porsche deliberately engineered at the factory (for safety considerations) but as said, unless you spend big then it'll be a compromise imo... Edited March 13, 2021 by Mavrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 6 minutes ago, Mavrik said: I agree (to an extent) ... Lowering defo affects the geo & setting up after lowering is always a compromise as tweaking the camber will always throw the toe... OFC, adjustable LCA's with adjustable top mounts (Tarett etc) IS the way to go but most folk are put off by the cost. I also agree with what you said re the spacers... Invariably front spacers WILL induce an out of balance effect at speed no matter how "hub-centric" they claim to be! For most folk just wanting to enhance the aesthetics of their ride by lowering & not planning on tracking etc then a geo is essential to get within "the ball park" imo... It's actually cheaper to buy LCAs than replacing tyres that wear the outer edge prematurely due to the lack of camber. It seems to me that to save few quid in parts people then end up spending more in tyres later on! The issue with spacers is that adding greater width at the rear only increase understeer. Hub-centric or not is not the point. Yes they do it for stance/look, but what I can't stand is the "claim" that their car handles better when in reality the only way to make such a claim would be to push the same car to the limit at a track before and after.....which again those who do it for aestetic only most likely only drive their cars on a sunday on B roads 🤦♂️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrik Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Andrea said: It's actually cheaper to buy LCAs than replacing tyres that wear the outer edge prematurely due to the lack of camber. It seems to me that to save few quid in parts people then end up spending more in tyres later on! The issue with spacers is that adding greater width at the rear only increase understeer. Hub-centric or not is not the point. Yes they do it for stance/look, but what I can't stand is the "claim" that their car handles better when in reality the only way to make such a claim would be to push the same car to the limit at a track before and after.....which again those who do it for aestetic only most likely only drive their cars on a sunday on B roads 🤦♂️ OFC, widening the rear track with 15mm spacers & 7mm up front will exacerbate understeer... It's just plain Physics lol... You seem to be saying that if you fit lowering springs then you MUST fit adjustable LCA's or top mounts, which I can't agree with... We're not all loaded because we chose to drive a Porsche 😉 https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod136142/Adjustable-Lower-Control-Arm-Kit-for-Porsche---EIBACH/ Edited March 13, 2021 by Mavrik 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennym1984 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Mavrik said: All "racers" or "trackday guys" know that more -ve camber up front vs the rear is what's needed to address understeer that Porsche deliberately engineered at the factory (for safety considerations) but as said, unless you spend big then it'll be a compromise imo... I had my car setup by CG yesterday and Chris seemed to think that a symmetrical setup (camber matched front to back) worked best for a Cayman due to the macpherson strut setup. Mine is now set to -2 on all axles and it does feel fantastic (in fairness, I have adjustable arms and toe links) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygo Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 41 minutes ago, Lennym1984 said: I had my car setup by CG yesterday and Chris seemed to think that a symmetrical setup (camber matched front to back) worked best for a Cayman due to the macpherson strut setup. Mine is now set to -2 on all axles and it does feel fantastic (in fairness, I have adjustable arms and toe links) Is that setup mainly for road use or track use? Interested to know if the more pronounced negative camber is ok for the road or is it a bit twitchy but the tradeoff being so much better on track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrik Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Lennym1984 said: I had my car setup by CG yesterday and Chris seemed to think that a symmetrical setup (camber matched front to back) worked best for a Cayman due to the macpherson strut setup. Mine is now set to -2 on all axles and it does feel fantastic (in fairness, I have adjustable arms and toe links) What toe are you running front & rear? ... I've always been under the impression that more -ve is needed in the front vs the rear to account for the mid engined layout? I guess you'll hear different opinions from different geo techs though? ... I've never heard/read any anecdotal stuff to indicate that a square camber setup is "better" Interesting... Edited March 13, 2021 by Mavrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennym1984 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 It's running 1 minute of toe in each side on the front and 4 minutes aside on the rear. It's setup for b-road blasts and track days (ie. It's not a commuter) but now everything is straight its actually pretty benign. It feels very predictable and tramlining etc is almost negligible. I'm not an expert in car geo but what he said made perfect sense. A 911 has a multilink rear and so doesn't need as much static camber but a cayman is macpherson struts and so will lose camber as it rolls. Hence you need to follow a slightly different approach. Centre gravity are extremely impressive so I had no issue following his advice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarlechS Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 i paid around £450-500 for 2 front OEM springs supplied and fitted by a reputable specialist IIRC (4-5 years back) not sure if this helps GEO for 4 wheel laser alignment with a print out is around 100-150. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdh Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 On 13/03/2021 at 16:41, Mavrik said: @Kdh I'm moving to Eastbourne Harbour at the end of the month but I'd be happy to do it for you if you can wait till the weather is better lol (end April?)... TBH I'd be charging £100 a corner to do & the geo setup will be roughly another £125. If you can get it done for £360 as @Red7 suggest then that's a bargain!!! You're on. Give me a shout when you're all settled in and the weather's a bit better. I'm in no rush. Hope the move goes well. Kim kim@kdhcreative.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrik Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 On 16/03/2021 at 12:52, Kdh said: You're on. Give me a shout when you're all settled in and the weather's a bit better. I'm in no rush. Hope the move goes well. Kim kim@kdhcreative.co.uk Ok Kim... No worries... I'll pm you nearer the end of April to arrange a time/day etc Cheers, Julian... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now