Brake Pads and Disc - Changeout

[magic8080]

Folks,

i'm just planning to do my front brake pads and discs

 

I've ordered all the parts 

SEBRO discs, Textar pads, new sensors, mounting bolts (mostly sourced from Eurocarparts)

 

Will I need to use anti squel paste?

 

Any advice would be greatly welcome

[Rob63]

Hi magic 8080, just the front brakes? Rears OK?

 

Personally I'd use a thin coat, sparingly, of Mintex CeraTec on all contact points. Ensure you get the discs installed in the correct orientation with the vented vanes in the corect direction of travel break them in correctly after change out and all will be ok. Oh...and pump that pedal prior to the first drive up the road

 

Good luck

[Porker]

The manual says specifically not to add any paste, most online forums say its ok. I replaced the rear disks and pads and just the front pads last year. Very easy job. Apparently the countersunk screws that retain the disks can sieze (they locate and hold them on really, the wheel bolts take the loads) i put an dab of Castro alu grease on those to make sure they don't have an issue next time. The manual says to smear paste over the mounding face of the disk, presumably to make sure they don't stick for future removal. 

 

[Porker]

6 minutes ago, Porker said:

The manual says specifically not to add any paste, most online forums say its ok. I replaced the rear disks and pads and just the front pads last year. Very easy job. Apparently the countersunk screws that retain the disks can sieze (they locate and hold them on really, the wheel bolts take the loads) i put an dab of Castro alu grease on those to make sure they don't have an issue next time. The manual says to smear paste over the mounding face of the disk, presumably to make sure they don't stick for future removal. 

 

 

 

This stuff, found it on a well known auction site for far less. You only need a tiny amount so could buy half a tube off there. http://www.design911.co.uk//fu/prod126346/Castrol-Optimol-Paste-TA-for-screw-connections---100g-00004302000/?imt=1&utm_campaign=uk+shopping&utm_source=adrac&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=

[Rob63]

I personally wouldn't use any metal based medium, but then it's all subjective and down to personal preference. There will be lots of differeing views upon this aubjest. But, this is worth a look - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAGWc_gI-X0

 

In addition to the advice in the above link you could add dissimilar metal corrosion from introducing a differing metal based compound, whether copper or aluminium based; ceramic based is ok but then is very expensive and in my experience not as durable if exposed to the elements.

 

The Mintex CeraTec (can't tell the difference between this as my uber expensive Brembo compound) will also save you 20 odd quid as well over other products, one small tube will last you a decade or more - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINTEX-CERATEC-ANTI-BRAKE-SQUEAL-GREASE-like-Bremtech-Pad-Goo-Not-Copper-Ease-/222024869528?hash=item33b1b6a698:g:yGAAAOSwzgRWwfkK

 

Either way good luck, it's a straight forward job and if there's any probs then you've got this forum to assist .

[magic8080]

Thanks guys

 

I've taken the plunge and I've changed the front discs and pads and decided not to use paste.

 

A bit of fiddle but all done now and I know how to do them. Thanks to my mates for helping out.

 

Old discs had quite a lip on them and the sensor was wearing through. So I've now got all new front  The rears look fine but I'll  keep an eye on them.

 

Got a bit of squeel at low speed but that should go, hopefully.

 

Just a note on costs, CarParts4less are cheaper than eurocarparts for the same items. Rather strange as there the same company?

[Porker]

55 minutes ago, magic8080 said:

Thanks guys

 

I've taken the plunge and I've changed the front discs and pads and decided not to use paste.

 

A bit of fiddle but all done now and I know how to do them. Thanks to my mates for helping out.

 

Old discs had quite a lip on them and the sensor was wearing through. So I've now got all new front  The rears look fine but I'll  keep an eye on them.

 

Got a bit of squeel at low speed but that should go, hopefully.

 

Just a note on costs, CarParts4less are cheaper than eurocarparts for the same items. Rather strange as there the same company?

Yes, i had some squealing that died down after a couple of hundreds miles

[magic8080]

Still got a bit of squeel at low speeds, but braking is much improved

 

Talking about braking, I had the pleasure of brake testing a 718 Cayman on Monday at the PEC at Silverstone. The brakes were immense

[Rob63]

2 hours ago, magic8080 said:

Still got a bit of squeel at low speeds, but braking is much improved

 

Talking about braking, I had the pleasure of brake testing a 718 Cayman on Monday at the PEC at Silverstone. The brakes were immense

 

You shouldn't really be experiencing any squeel (sic), assuming you installed the shims etc and have correctly bedded in the pads/discs? Is the squeal emanating from the front or the rear?

I think the last time I experienced any type of brake squeal from my brakes (or the then GF) would have been on my Mk 1 Escort, early eighties, whilst shouting "Dude, I almost had you!" waaay before the Fast 'N Furious franchise robbed it off me...

[Bushman]

Ive always used a copper based assembly paste on braking systems and never has a squealing issue or experienced a galvanic corrosion problem. As I have said on other forum posts, I use it on exhausts, engines and suspension bolts too. we have proven at work ( high tech military and aerospace) that you get more accurate and repeatable  torque figures using copper assembly paste over dry or Loctited assemblies.

[Rob63]

8 hours ago, Bushman said:

Ive always used a copper based assembly paste on braking systems and never has a squealing issue or experienced a galvanic corrosion problem. As I have said on other forum posts, I use it on exhausts, engines and suspension bolts too. we have proven at work ( high tech military and aerospace) that you get more accurate and repeatable  torque figures using copper assembly paste over dry or Loctited assemblies.

 

The difference in applied torque between a dry assembly and a lubricated assembly is vast, and the type of lubricant applied to the thread will aslo have a masssive effect upon the torque figure, let alone type of material, coating etc, etc. As much as an increase in the region of 70% can be achieved if using a generic 'copper grease' anti-seize paste...and as most manufacturers quote a dry assembly torque figure you can imagine the result; BTW ever seen 'copper grease' on a factory assembled car? No. That's the reason for dry assembly torque figures only. Of course I would advocate the use of an anti-seize assembly paste for automotive use, I use it everywhere, but if you want to go down the route of a torque assembled fastener then consider using an easily downloaded chart listing the correct figure for lubricated or greased fasteners. Be nice if cars were to be assembled at the factory with anti-seize, but then this post wouldn't exist!

 

As an example; if you were to replace your corroded exhaust fasteners with a 10.9 8-1.25 set up then the dry (as received - generally has a light anti-corrosion oil present) torque will be 34Nm, apply some anti-seize assembly grease and that will drop to 23Nm. Of course you'd be smart, it's a Cayman after all, and you'll be using 316 St Stl 8-1.25, so dry would be 16Nm and with anti-seize 11Nm; you would use anti-seize or assembly paste in this aplication to prevent galling of the threads.

 

The subject matter here has the potential to run and run for ever and a day! I will say though that with over 20 years of working on high-tech, and a lot of low-tech military equipment, that includes 4 different types of fast jets and some awfully slow ones (due to my age!) I never, ever used or seen a copper based assembly paste...did see a lot of it in MTMS though, which is where it should be found. I've now moved on and have over 10 years experience as a marine engineer, now lets talk 'real' corrosion...!

[PorscheGT4]

you need paste on all touching parts on brakes imo,I have done it for 30 years and it's common sense ,  just never do threads.

 

Porsche OPC always do me over, they fitted new tyres, I went to get the wheels off, and the wheels were stuck to the hubs !!!

 

So after many hours wiggling my wheels in fact bashing the s**t out of them the hubs are now all copper slipped up.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by PorscheGT4

[Porker]

On 08/04/2017 at 08:48, Rob63 said:

 

The difference in applied torque between a dry assembly and a lubricated assembly is vast, and the type of lubricant applied to the thread will aslo have a masssive effect upon the torque figure, let alone type of material, coating etc, etc. As much as an increase in the region of 70% can be achieved if using a generic 'copper grease' anti-seize paste...and as most manufacturers quote a dry assembly torque figure you can imagine the result; BTW ever seen 'copper grease' on a factory assembled car? No. That's the reason for dry assembly torque figures only. Of course I would advocate the use of an anti-seize assembly paste for automotive use, I use it everywhere, but if you want to go down the route of a torque assembled fastener then consider using an easily downloaded chart listing the correct figure for lubricated or greased fasteners. Be nice if cars were to be assembled at the factory with anti-seize, but then this post wouldn't exist!

 

As an example; if you were to replace your corroded exhaust fasteners with a 10.9 8-1.25 set up then the dry (as received - generally has a light anti-corrosion oil present) torque will be 34Nm, apply some anti-seize assembly grease and that will drop to 23Nm. Of course you'd be smart, it's a Cayman after all, and you'll be using 316 St Stl 8-1.25, so dry would be 16Nm and with anti-seize 11Nm; you would use anti-seize or assembly paste in this aplication to prevent galling of the threads.

 

The subject matter here has the potential to run and run for ever and a day! I will say though that with over 20 years of working on high-tech, and a lot of low-tech military equipment, that includes 4 different types of fast jets and some awfully slow ones (due to my age!) I never, ever used or seen a copper based assembly paste...did see a lot of it in MTMS though, which is where it should be found. I've now moved on and have over 10 years experience as a marine engineer, now lets talk 'real' corrosion...!

Quick note, porsche say to use the Castrol Optimol (think its aluminium based)  antisieze on the wheel bolts (on the thread but not on the face of the spherical mating do dah), that's specified so not an issue. Agree, torque and lubricartion do need to be approached properly though, don't just slap it around.

[Rob63]

1 hour ago, Porker said:

Quick note, porsche say to use the Castrol Optimol (think its aluminium based)  antisieze on the wheel bolts (on the thread but not on the face of the spherical mating do dah), that's specified so not an issue. Agree, torque and lubricartion do need to be approached properly though, don't just slap it around.

 

Sound advice on this subject from several members, thanks.

 

Over the years I've trialled pretty much everything on the market, some of it I've even had to pay for! In my humble opinion the best to date, and my go-to favourite, has been Chesterton 785. This is labled as a 'Parting Lubricant', works in a broad range of -30 to 1200DegC, is micro-fine, approx 5 microns and is therefore excellent for press fit applications, you'll find it applied to the correct areas of my brake systems, wheel studs, mating surfaces, engine builds, etc, etc, and best of all....there's no need for any torque tension recalculations. Win, win.

 

If you can track it down it's worth investing in, a 500g tin will last a lifetime and I can assure you that you won't be disappointed.