Porker Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 My tyres as fitted when I bought the car have about 5mm left (MPS on the rear PS2 on the front). I don't use it much but want to get the same all round in a month or so. I'll be getting MPSSs but was thinking of holding out for the replacement, the Pilot Sport 4S (note, not the Pilot Sport 4) depending on price. It could also mean that the MPSS drops in price? Here's the email I got from Black Circles (4th Jan) Hi There, Thank you for your email. We are currently still awaiting dates as to when we will be stocking the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, the product has only been released as of the last few days and at present we are in still in talks with our suppliers as to when they are expected with them. Apologies I was unable to advise any further, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Jamie McWhir, Michelin's technical manager and their Ex-F1 engineer told me a month or so ago that the PS4S is "only for the Panamera". He explained what had happened so that this model ended up with the "S" suffix, but I can't recall. He went on to explain that the correct tyre for the Cayman is the PS4, as there had been some similar misunderstandings elsewhere about the Panamera "only" PS4S. Bear in mind Jamie is one of their top men. Give him a call if you need more info. Having spoken to him at length about all the PS4 technology, I would 100% go for PS4 over the old PS unless doing a lot of track work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porker Posted January 6, 2017 Author Share Posted January 6, 2017 2 hours ago, DJMC said: Jamie McWhir, Michelin's technical manager and their Ex-F1 engineer told me a month or so ago that the PS4S is "only for the Panamera". He explained what had happened so that this model ended up with the "S" suffix, but I can't recall. He went on to explain that the correct tyre for the Cayman is the PS4, as there had been some similar misunderstandings elsewhere about the Panamera "only" PS4S. Bear in mind Jamie is one of their top men. Give him a call if you need more info. Having spoken to him at length about all the PS4 technology, I would 100% go for PS4 over the old PS unless doing a lot of track work. One problem, the Pilot Sport 4 is not available in 265/35/19 or 235/35/19 sizes so buggers that one. To be honest I doubt I bother paying the likely premium to get the the new pilot sport 4S, I'll pick up a set of Pilot Super Sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Red Square Images Posted January 6, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 6, 2017 3 hours ago, DJMC said: Jamie McWhir, Michelin's technical manager and their Ex-F1 engineer told me a month or so ago that the PS4S is "only for the Panamera". He explained what had happened so that this model ended up with the "S" suffix, but I can't recall. He went on to explain that the correct tyre for the Cayman is the PS4, as there had been some similar misunderstandings elsewhere about the Panamera "only" PS4S. Bear in mind Jamie is one of their top men. Give him a call if you need more info. Having spoken to him at length about all the PS4 technology, I would 100% go for PS4 over the old PS unless doing a lot of track work. Please don't listen to that man. He is an ASS. Also what accreditation is the title of "Ex-F1 engineer" He's talking absolute and utter bollox. It is not "only for the Panamera" (there are 25 tyre sizes) http://www.michelin.co.uk/GB/en/tyres/products/pilot-sport-4-s.html Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S - Press Release Designed for sports cars and high performance saloons, the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S offers unparalleled driving pleasure thanks to its exceptional steering precision and directional stability. It provides maximum performance and safety on all surfaces due to its optimized tread footprint which grips the road in all situations, even the most extreme. The MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S also displays excellent braking performance on both dry and wet surfaces, thanks to the use of ‘bi-compound technology’. The outer part of the tread uses a new hybrid compound that promotes grip on dry ground while the inner part uses a new compound with silica and functional elastomers which allows the tyre to offer consistent grip on wet ground. This high performance on dry and wet surfaces, often conflicting characteristics in the world of super sports tyres, here have advanced together. The MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S is the result of a unique know-how developed by engineers passionate about their work and redefines the standards of the category. Adapted for driving at the highest levels on road and on track, it has already positioned itself as the number one in its class. In tests conducted by the independent organization TÜV SÜD in Germany, the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S surpassed its five major competitors in the different workshops, and has become the first ultra-high performance tyre to dominate several key testing criteria simultaneously. Dry Braking The new MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S takes only 33.66 meters (110.43 feet) to brake from 62 mph to a complete stop, when the best of its direct competitors takes nearly a meter more (+0.83 m, 2.77 feet). Wet Braking On a wet track 27.73 meters (90.98 feet) is enough to brake from 50 mph to 0. This shows it once again as the best, almost 2.50 m (+8.20 feet) shorter than the worst performer. Lap Time On a 2.60 km (1.62 mile) circuit, the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S proved to be between 0.40 seconds and 1.39 seconds faster per lap. It’s almost a second quicker on average, over this relatively short distance. One second seems insignificant; however the driving experience will be completely different. Longevity Wear tests conducted by the Dekra Test Center demonstrated that the new MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S has the best longevity in its class, and it was the only tyre to break the 50,000 km (31,068 miles) barrier. The MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S is also among the first tyres in this category to score an A rating on the European labelling scale (19 inch tyre) in braking distance on wet surfaces. This label is intended to inform tyre buyers of the performance of the tyres they are planning to buy and also gives them information on the energy efficiency of the tyre and road noise level. The MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S also passes a new milestone in terms of reducing road noise, while providing good levels of driving comfort. The Passion, On Road and Track Michelin is involved in several motor sport disciplines worldwide and uses this competition as a laboratory for development of future tyre technologies, which are then used in the development of its production tyres. Data collected during racing, mostly from ‘confidential’ tyre technologies or rubber compound recipes, enable Michelin’s engineers to validate their findings. The MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S, which is set to be one of the most successful sports tyres ever designed by Michelin for the general public, uses construction methods and materials directly developed in competitions such as the FIA World Endurance Championship (WEC) and its flagship event the 24 Hours of Le Mans, Formula E, and the WRC. Designed To Equip the Most Distinguished Sports Cars Michelin is working hand in hand with the world’s leading car manufacturers to provide the most suitable tyres to complement the performance of their most exclusive models. Thus, the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S has been developed to satisfy the owners of cars from manufacturers including BMW M, Ferrari, Ford, Mercedes-AMG, and Porsche. Velvet-Like Sidewalls and Rim Protectors Like all of Michelin’s high-end tyres, the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S uses Michelin Premium Touch Technology® to enhance the appearance of the sidewall design. This is a sign of the recognition and esteem in which these tyres are held in the exclusive automotive world. Moreover, while the vast majority of sports cars are equipped with larger diameter wheels and tyres with low profile sidewalls, the MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S has a practical and aesthetic rim protector that will, in many cases, avoid contact between the rim and the curb. The new MICHELIN PILOT SPORT 4 S will be available from January 2017 in Europe and from early March in the United States. It will be available in in 19 and 20 inch diameters, covering 92% of the market. 19" PS4S Launch Sizes 225/35 ZR19 88 (Y) XL 225/40 ZR19 93 (Y) XL 225/45 ZR19 96 (Y) XL 235/35 ZR19 91 (Y) XL 235/40 ZR19 96 (Y) XL 245/30 ZR19 89 (Y) XL 245/35 ZR19 93 (Y) XL 255/30 ZR19 91 (Y) XL 255/35 ZR19 96 (Y) XL 265/30 ZR19 93 (Y) XL 265/35 ZR19 98 (Y) XL 265/45 ZR19 105 (Y) XL 275/30 ZR19 96 (Y) XL 275/35 ZR19 100 (Y) XL 285/35 ZR19 103 (Y) XL 295/30 ZR19 100 (Y) XL 295/40 ZR19 108 (Y) XL 305/30 ZR19 102 (Y) XL 325/30 ZR19 105 (Y) XL 20" PS4S Launch Sizes 235/35 ZR20 92 (Y) XL 235/45 ZR20 100 (Y) XL 245/30 ZR20 90 (Y) XL 245/35 ZR20 95 (Y) XL 245/40 ZR20 99 (Y) XL 255/35 ZR20 97 (Y) XL 255/40 ZR20 101 (Y) XL 255/45 ZR20 105 (Y) XL 265/30 ZR20 94 (Y) XL 265/35 ZR20 95 (Y) XL 275/30 ZR20 97 (Y) XL 275/35 ZR20 102 (Y) XL 275/40 ZR20 106 (Y) XL 285/30 ZR20 99 (Y) XL 285/35 ZR20 104 (Y) XL 295/30 ZR20 101 (Y) XL 305/30 ZR20 103 (Y) XL 315/35 ZR20 110 (Y) XL 345/30 ZR20 106 (Y) Further Tyre Information Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S reviews Michelin tyres 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Square Images Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 OK so I might be a bit harsh calling him an ASS. But nothing in their GLOBAL press release talks about it being Panamera Specific Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Square Images Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) . Edited January 6, 2017 by Red Square Images Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Hmmm.... when I first spoke to Jamie, maybe a year ago, he said the PS4 20" had been made for the 718 launch, so would fit 981 too. However the front 88Y isn't on that list. Ah, but that's the "S" list so perhaps that's why, or maybe it's not released yet which IS odd for a launch tyre! I did check his F1 credentials at the time by Googling him and it all stacked up. There again he may have written this himself... From: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=92039 I'll give him a call next week and see if he bows to your superior knowledge of his products Kev, i.e. see if he's an ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Square Images Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) I'm not doubting you. But what exactly does that make him? He worked on specific tyres for a very specific series. That has F all to do with Road. And I'm not actually professing to know ANYTHING about tyres. I just posted Michelin's own press release which completely contradicted him and never even mentioned anything about being for a Panamera. Again not having a go at you. He on the other hand (assuming you're telling the truth - and again I have no reason to doubt you) is talking utter bollox. Sorry but how could I not draw this conclusion? By the way. I have also worked in the BTCC and the WEC and British GT alongside the likes of (and including) Alonso, Button, Shumacher and Webber. What does that mean for me? Does it make me better at my job? NO. Does it mean I know anything about tyres? Nope. Does it make me an expert? No. It just means I have a job in motorsport. Put simply. He was a tyre fitter. Or pressure checker. End of. And again (like his statement to you) none of that has anything to do specifically with a Panamera either. Edited January 6, 2017 by Red Square Images Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Square Images Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 On a separate note - why can't you find tyres in that list for your car? Wouldnt the 91Y/95Y cover it? (just asking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Kev, I do believe he's head of technical at Michelin UK, as I phoned their generic number originally and that's what I was told. I phoned him about the PS4S as I saw it mentioned somewhere and thought "oh, that's a new one. I wonder why the "S"", and that's specifically why I phoned him, to see if the "S" is better than the PS4. He had a fairly lengthy explanation regarding the PS4S being Panamera specific. I'd be interested to know what the difference really is between PS4 & PS4S if not as he said? Could I suggest we both speak to him next week and ask what he was on about, if you can hold your tongue that is!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Red Square Images said: On a separate note - why can't you find tyres in that list for your car? Wouldnt the 91Y/95Y cover it? (just asking) From Porsche web site. Can't see the 88Y, can you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Square Images Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 1 minute ago, DJMC said: From Porsche web site. Can't see the 88Y, can you? Dont need an 88y as 91Y is a greater speed rating and would cover 88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Red Square Images said: Dont need an 88y as 91Y is a greater speed rating and would cover 88 Edited January 6, 2017 by DJMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) Ignore above post. Stupid thing got stuck with your quote but no option to type under it!! Mods??? Anyway... 88 is load index, not speed rating. It may well invalidate my warranty and insurance not to fit specified tyres. Thought you were in motorsport? Edited January 6, 2017 by DJMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Square Images Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 4 minutes ago, DJMC said: Kev, I do believe he's head of technical at Michelin UK, as I phoned their generic number originally and that's what I was told. I phoned him about the PS4S as I saw it mentioned somewhere and thought "oh, that's a new one. I wonder why the "S"", and that's specifically why I phoned him, to see if the "S" is better than the PS4. He had a fairly lengthy explanation regarding the PS4S being Panamera specific. I'd be interested to know what the difference really is between PS4 & PS4S if not as he said? Could I suggest we both speak to him next week and ask what he was on about, if you can hold your tongue that is!? Why are you sniping at me? I'm only saying what he says is contradicted by his own press office who have provided extensive details on what the S provides. Its a replacement to the SuperSport tyre. You can find out from Michelin (just look at their own website what the differences are) Again - I'm not sniping at you. He just seems to be continuously (as I believe he spouted about the 4 replacing the Supersport before - I could be wrong) saying things that are wrong. Not by me, but by Michelin's own information. Not looking to fight mate (and I don't appreciate the dig about holding my tongue.) I'm just looking to provide accurate information to the forum. That's all (And I appreciate all you are doing is repeating what he has told you). We don't need to speak to him. Michelin have spend many millions talking about their product on their website. So why do I need to speak to him? I put the link in the content I provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Square Images Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, DJMC said: Jamie McWhir, Michelin's technical manager and their Ex-F1 engineer told me a month or so ago that the PS4S is "only for the Panamera". He explained what had happened so that this model ended up with the "S" suffix, but I can't recall. He went on to explain that the correct tyre for the Cayman is the PS4, as there had been some similar misunderstandings elsewhere about the Panamera "only" PS4S. Bear in mind Jamie is one of their top men. Give him a call if you need more info. Having spoken to him at length about all the PS4 technology, I would 100% go for PS4 over the old PS unless doing a lot of track work. 15 minutes ago, DJMC said: From Porsche web site. Can't see the 88Y, can you? 8 minutes ago, DJMC said: Ignore above post. Stupid thing got stuck with your quote but no option to type under it!! Mods??? Anyway... 88 is load index, not speed rating. It may well invalidate my warranty and insurance not to fit specified tyres. Thought you were in motorsport? Cmon man (I made a mistake) you are indeed right and in my eagerness to respond I used the wrong term. It is indeed the load index. But I have yet to hear of an insurance company invalidating a policy by EXCEEDING the load index. After all Michelin themselves would recommend the 91Y because they dont do an 88 (go ahead - check it). As for being in motorsport. YES. I AM. (again why the attack?) But as I said just because I work in the industry doesn't mean I know fook all about it. For the record. I am a Motorsport Photographer. Accredited and published. I can provide examples if you require. HOWEVER - (and I'm just saying) in motorsport race tyres dont use road markings or road based load indexes my friend..... Edited January 6, 2017 by Red Square Images Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 The reason you should speak to him is to modify your impression of him other than an "ass" perhaps? He is head of Michelin UK technical. If he tells me the PS4S is for the Panamera only, and I am not lying (as mentioned, and, no, I'm not) then he is either mistaken, the press release is mistaken (not impossible because when I chatted online to Michelin originally they gave me a load of bull such that I then phoned and Jamie "seemingly" put me right on their twaddle), or they have now decided to use the PS4S for more vehicles than just the Panamera as he told me a month or so ago. There must be a logical explanation, and I think the least likely is that Jamie is an ass and shouldn't be listened to regarding Michelin products when he heads up their UK technical team. Or have you had some other experience where he was proven to be spouting twaddle? If you don't wish to phone him that's fine, but I shall so as to find out what's happening, as far as he knows. How does that sound? Shall we leave it there for now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Square Images Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 He has come out in the past (I thought you mentioned it but I could be wrong) but I know he did elsewhere saying the PS4 replaced the super sport (which again is wrong) the tire patterns are completely different as are the silica quantities. Hence my logical explanation is he doesnt know what he is talking about. As for one guy in the UK getting it right and the whole R&D team in Clermont-Ferrand getting it wrong seems unlikely. Likewise the fact that there are 25 different sizes at launch (some Mercedes and Ferrari Specific) seems to contradict his "only for the Panamera" statement. So (and I did say I was being harsh in calling him an ASS) I concluded that he knows nothing worth discussing (when it comes to product) and perhaps a lot when it comes to physics. As for his "I worked in F1 statement "- this is just a gripe of mine. After all, what the F does it mean if you work with Webber, Alonso or anyone else for that matter. How does that make you good at your job. I'm not lying when I said I work with these people. I do. Doesn't make my photography any better though does it? NO. It doesn't Love you. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Square Images Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) Here is where he is once again talking bollox to the masses (again this was wrong from the beginning) http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/Michelin-Pilot-Sport-4-First-Drive.htm "As Michelin's technical manager in the UK I felt it was only fitting and just that I posted some response to the comments below I'm not going to go through the ins and outs of the Pilot Sport range 10 years ago when I worked in different division for the company in France All I can comment on is the new tyre rangePilot Sport 4 shares all its DNA with the pilot super sport range, and has virtually nothing in common with the Pilot Sport 3. I've got loads of internal test data that show significant gains over the Pilot Sport 3 and where the differences lie with Pilot Super Sport. We wouldn't launch a product that wasn't an improvement Will consumers feel a difference? I'm sure they will I did on our test tracks (not in a lab) and our test data is provided and cross validated by TUV who are the biggest independent test body in Europe The Pilot Sport 4 has already gained significant OE approvals and time will tell whether the market takes it too it's heart like the Super Sport and Cup 2 ranges So whilst there may have been issues in the past you feel justified in discussing. I wasn't in the car technical division at that stage so won't discuss something that's not my place to do so" Then along comes this new press release (as per above) where it contradicts what he said. See where I'm coming from? ****EDIT**** I found where he fed you wrong information before: "So, not entirely happy with this answer I phoned Michelin just now and was fortunate enough to get through to Michelin UK's Technical Manager, Jamie. He's been there 18 years and has been involved in motor sport tyre applications too. He told me he COULD NOT recommend Super Sport tyres for my car. However, for my model and tyre size there is a NEW Michelin tyre out soon, the Pilot Sport 4 (PS4), This will entirely REPLACE the Super Sport (MPSS) and also the PS3 models. It will be N0 marked and is being made for the new 718 model as OE equipment but is also Porsche approved for the 981. He explained that the Super Sport was based on Le Mans technology whereas other Michelin tyres may be F1 or endurance derived. The new tyre will take advantage of the SS performance but with Porsche's input into its homologation." Actually the PS4 was (allegedly) developed from Formula E - Why wouldn't he know this? Edited January 6, 2017 by Red Square Images Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porker Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 So anyway, the MPS4S is the replacement for the MPSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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