Cayman 3.4 s Gen 2 Brakes issue

[Wrathers]

Hi all on the forum

After some advice please and resolution to a problem with my Cayman, longish tale................ so here goes.

Previously in march I had replaced the discs, Kinetics pads and sensors  with Brembro Pads front and rear, easy job all went well ........didn't disturb the hydraulic system.

 

Took the car for a basic minor service, oil, oil filter and pollen filter to a recommended Porsche Specialist and thought whilst they were doing that I would get the brake fluid changed ( coming up to seven years old)  years 3 and 5 being done at Porsche Wilmslow and stamped accordingly. This is were my tale of woe begins.......................................

 

Took my car there two weeks ago today and still at the specialist's ................this is the diagnosis

 

1. Brakes have been bled but the pedal travel is  straight to the foot well and when pumped does go hard but there is air in the system.

2. Suspect master cylinder changed still no difference

3  When the specialist bled the system, only the outboard bleed nipples in all four of the callipers were bled.

4 .Inboard ones were then bled, but one of the front and a rear callipers bleed nipples were seized.

5. Seized bleed nipples were removed from the car and out sourced to a "local Engineering company" for removal and extracting without thread damage.

6. Front Calliper successful, nipple removed, Rear damaged thread so new calliper required..............................NOT HAPPY

7.New calliper fitted and now all bleed nipples functional ............happy days, or so I thought.

8. After numerous attempts flushing it is still the same, pedal straight to the floor and not serviceable.

 

The latest tale of woe as of Thursday  when I challenged them, umpteenth phone call  was a suspect ABS Pump required??? Have priced these and they are £2200

Told the specialist to get the ABS pump pressure tested for functionality before I even attempt to purchase one of these units, surely they are a repairable item.............

 

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllp please one frustrated Cayman owner

 

Wrathers

  

 

 

 

 

 

[crafty1]

Hi Wrathers

 

Sorry to hear about your issues. I had a similar experience earlier this year when a so called 'specialist' changed my lines to braided variety and the MC to a GT3 item. As far as I can work out air gets trapped in the system and takes an age to be expelled, apart from a pressure bleeder they also spent minimum 2 more hours bleeding the old fashioned way and then on the road activate the ABS multiple times then bleed again. There are no short cuts it seems once there is air in the system.

 

I actually ended up sending the specialist these links I found because they were out of ideas but we got there in the end.

 

http://www.planet-9.com/987-cayman-and-boxster-modifications/80889-problem-w-gt3-master-cylinder-install.html

 

Sometimes you have to bleed the system multiple times to get the stubborn pockets out. Reported cases of people wondering why GT3 MC didn't work for them until they later bled more air bubbles out of the system. As far as bleeding/flushing the ABS, you need PIWIS (I or II) or Durametric.

 

++++

 

9. Fill the reservoir with new brake fluid of choice, put the remainder of that 500ml fluid bottle plus one more 500ml bottle of fluid in the Motive bleeder unit and proceed to bleed the brakes at both bleed valves on all four calipers;
10. If the brake pedal is still mushy after you used the Motive bleeder, have someone help you bleed the lines again the old fashion way (them pressing the brake pedal while you open the bleeders). I found the Motive unit 15-20psi pressure wasn't enough to get all the air out of the lines;
11. Reinstall the wheels, torque to spec and test drive the car. Find a safe area to engage the ABS 5-6 times to get the air out of the abs unit;
12. Then return home and remove the wheels and bleed the brakes again to remove any residual air released from the abs activation; finally.

 

++++

 

To get the brake pedal hard, I needed to follow this procedure from the factory manual. 

Check the brake system for residual air by the amount of brake pedal
travel. Repeat the bleeding procedure if necessary. Operate (pump) the
brake pedal at the same time as described below. This will remove the
remaining air bubbles from the primary circuit.
♦ Open the rear right bleeder valves, then fully rapidly depress the
brake pedal hard several times. Hold the brake pedal for 2 to
3 seconds after each depression, then release slowly. Continue
bleeding until the brake fluid emerging into the collection bottle is
free of bubbles and foam.
♦ Repeat this procedure in the sequence rear left/front right/front
left.
9. If necessary, continue bleeding the secondary circuit (using the
Piwis Tester). Only necessary if the hydraulic unit has been
replaced and, after bleeding in the normal way (primary circuit),
the brake pedal travel is excessive. (WAS NOT REQUIRED)
10. Remove bleeding device from brake fluid reservoir and screw
cap on. The brake fluid level in the brake fluid reservoir must be
between the MIN and MAX markings once the vehicle has been
filled and bled. Adjust the brake fluid level if necessary

I set my brake bleeding device at 15 psi and followed the above. I was able to do solo and got a really high, really firm pedal. I did have to do this for both the outside and inside bleeder screws.

 

Above may already have been done and could be something else of course

 

Good luck

 

 

[Wrathers]

Hi Crafty1

Many thanks for your prompt response, feel somewhat more confident that the ABS pump maybe a red herring after all...............I hope.

Kind Regards

Wrathers

[Wrathers]

Hi Crafty 1

Finally a result

Last Thursday 28th June decided enough was enough with this "Specialist" who was still convinced the ABS pump required replacing(£2200 from Porsche main dealer)

Sent him the previous Saturday your kind instructions on bleeding the brakes  but to no avail and still no contact from him regarding progress. I was now in the third week and getting well P"££$D off with his total lack of communication and commitment.

 

 Decided to bite the bullet and got my car transported from Burnley to Lytham St Annes to a garage (Granville Autos) who I have used previously and are excellent common sense technicians, after telling the owner a few home truths in a professional manner of my customer experience with his business..

 

The car was serviceable on Tuesday this week after 3 hours worth of bleeding and strip down of the system NO ABS PUMP and a repair bill of less than £200, so very disillusioned and total lack of respect for this Porsche specialist in Burnley who cannot bleed Porsche Cayman brakes?? and very well impressed by my local garage who came up trumps.

 

Regards

Wrathers

 

 

[crafty1]

 

 

Glad to help and pleased you got it sorted, they are great cars but a real PITA when it comes to brakes , thank God for the internet or we may both have been well out of pocket. I hope you can now enjoy your car.

 

 

[Tinners1983]

Sorry to drag this up but I seem to have a similar problem although mine is intermittent. We changed the vacuum pump which did help... Will have to go back.

[Tozerman]

Try this method.....

Get the car and brakes/fluid nice and warm. 

With the engine running pump the brake pedal several times, upon the last downwards  stroke peg the brake pedal down nice and firm 😁 with a piece of wood and keep it there over night, obviously turn off the engine at that point. 

In the morning go for a drive with your nice firm brake pedal.... 

Good luck 🤞 

[sevenfourate]

On 22/10/2019 at 20:06, Tozerman said:

Try this method.....

Get the car and brakes/fluid nice and warm. 

With the engine running pump the brake pedal several times, upon the last downwards  stroke peg the brake pedal down nice and firm 😁 with a piece of wood and keep it there over night, obviously turn off the engine at that point. 

In the morning go for a drive with your nice firm brake pedal.... 

Good luck 🤞 

 

When i was a biker; we would always wrap a few elastic bands around the front brake lever / throttle for a few days to squeeze out any air bubbles from the brake fluid and firm up the lever feel (Which i personally love in any vehicle). And i'm not quite sure why i've never tried the same thing (As you've stated above) in a car as this 'trick' is well known to me as such.......

 

Anyway; recent discs / pads and fluid in my daily and pedal feel wasn't as before. So wedged the brake pedal down overnight and BOOM. Absolutely spot-on and firmed it up a treat.

 

Wifes car had just had new front pads and amongst the disturbing, the pedal firmness had decreased for whatever reason. Sunday i dropped her off at work and wedged the brake pedal from about 8am to 3pm [As that was all the time i had} and again its hugely improved it. And even she was impressed. And man that takes some doing 🤣

 

Porsche then had the same treatment Monday night and i've just removed it tonight. Hopefully might get it out at the weekend and give the 'new' stoppers a try. (Also had fresh fluid quite recently and pedal feel is good - but not as good as i suspect it could be. So suspect there might be a few bubbles / some air to squeeze out - and the difference again will hopefully be very noticeable)

 

So thanks for the 'reminder'. TOP TOP TIP that man.......!!!!!

[Tozerman]

Hi Syer,

Glad it has worked for you. It is not a 100% guaranteed fix for everybody but it works more often than not, follow the above instructions precisely (as you have obviously done) and you should relish in your nice firm pedal