40k Major service - nothing to report...

[DJMC]

My 981 2.7 PDK went in to the OPC last Friday, 40k service, brake fluid, spark plugs, etc.

 

No "urgent" work. Just advisories that rear tyres are down to 3mm (so they say); new tyre sealant on offer for £85 (bought two Holts for £9 in December); and would I like an air-con service at £189? No, I wouldn't.

 

Over 27k miles my only issues have been rusty caliper bolts (DIY fix £10); a buzz from a speaker when bass is loud; hundreds of stone chips to wheels (compensated by Porsche GB).

 

I'll keep extending the warranty anyhow, for peace of mind.

[DJMC]

Oooh... now something to report/query...

Just been out for a long run. Water temp up to 90 degrees as usual but oil always used to go to 105 degrees whereas now it doesn't go past 94.

Also, oil level at 3 green bars out of 5 whereas I've never known it to be less than 4 bars. 

I can't see why clean oil and a new filter would drop the temp, especially as it didn't after its 20k oil service.

Waiting for OPC service manager to call me, but any ideas?

Thanks all.

[Mk1]

Do you have Sport mode ?

 

Oil temperature runs hotter when `not` in Sport mode due to thermal efficiency management. Mine runs 105` and 90` when in Sport.

 

My oil level changes by one bar depending on how far I have run, > 100 miles  = MAX (5) ; < 50 miles = one bar less. 

[DJMC]

Yes, I had it in Sport for a short while, thought this may be the reason, so switched back to Normal but the oil temp still didn't go back up after 10 miles or so.

 

I'm about to head out, keeping it in Normal, to see what it reaches when warmed up. If it gets back to 105, fine. Then I'll put it in Sport and see if it comes down again, then back to Normal for a longer run.

 

Sport seems the most likely reason, but I need it to come back up once back in Normal or there's something not right with a sensor perhaps?

[DJMC]

Yes, I had it in Sport for a short while, thought this may be the reason, so switched back to Normal but the oil temp still didn't go back up after 10 miles or so.

 

I'm about to head out, keeping it in Normal, to see what it reaches when warmed up. If it gets back to 105, fine. Then I'll put it in Sport and see if it comes down again, then back to Normal for a longer run.

 

Sport seems the most likely reason, but I need it to come back up once back in Normal or there's something not right with a sensor perhaps?

[DJMC]

Here's what I noted from this morning's drive:

• Oil temp was 11 degrees at start up and didn't increase from this for two miles.
• I drove for 30 miles in Normal mode, the oil temp took 20 miles to get to 90 degrees, hit 101 at one stage after that, but then went back down to 95 average.
• Until the recent service, over 27k miles in my ownership, the oil has always hit 105 degrees and stayed there.
• At 30 miles I shifted to Sport mode. The oil temp dropped to average 87 degrees.
• I came off the motorway and shifted back to Normal mode. The oil temp dropped to 81 degrees as I came to a rest at traffic lights.
• Onto motorway again and the oil temp went back up to around 95 average, but fluctuated 3-4 degrees either way up to 99 max.
• Off motorway onto A road and oil temp was flutuating between 97 and 93, changing every 30 seconds or so, not particularly in line with what the car was doing.
• Oil pressure on the motorway at constant 70mph was 2.2-2.3 BAR. With foot down, and a gear down under acceleration, this would go up to 3.5 BAR.
• The main oddity is the oil temp constantly changing up and down when the car is fully warmed up. It's never done this before.
• I have always driven with the "vehicle information" screen on, showing water and oil temp etc., hence noticed this change.

 

[Mk1]

11` ... only 9` more than us this morning !

 

My oil temperature runs very consistent, hardly / if ever fluctuates.

 

Any feedback from the OPC ?

 

 

[DJMC]

OPC is collecting it Tuesday to see what's going on.

 

I'm just fearing the "we can't find anything wrong" or "it's supposed to do that sir" when it's plainly not.

 

Still, they've caused the issue AND it's under warranty.

 

I may be thinking "faulty sensor" but why would that manifest itself at precisely the point they service the car and change the oil/filter?

Edited March 9, 2018 by DJMC

[Bushman]

maybe the oil they used is a different make or slightly different spec, still within acceptable limits but might behave slightly differently and show up as temp fluctuations

[DJMC]

No, it was Mobil 1 0W-40 as usual.

[DJMC]

OPC service manager phoned to say my car has been checked over and they "can find nothing wrong" with it. It's on its way back to me.

 

They say the oil temp is fluctuating but no differently to another 981 they compared it with. He's raising a ticket with PGB to see if they can assist. He didn't know for sure what the gauge should report... a constant fixed figure or a fluctuating one. A little worrying, when he did know the water temp stays at 90C but doesn't reflect true water temp.

 

I've phoned PGB CS and someone there is going to try and speed the ticket through the system.

 

Meanwhile, just to be on the safe side, I've emailed the service manager with:

 

"Further to our telephone conversation an hour or so ago, I'm finding it difficult to understand why over 27,000 miles of my driving the car the oil temperature had always stayed at 105C when warmed up and then suddenly, immediately after its service, it fluctuates between 81C and 101C? What also concerns me is that there seems to be no easy reference at your disposal to standard information as to what the oil temperature gauge should report?
 
You confirmed the water temperature gauge reads a fixed 90C when warm but that it's actually just acting like a "green light" whereas a wider range of water temperatures is occurring behind the scenes, but with oil temperature there doesn't seem to be such a set rule, hence your need to ask Porsche GB about this. Does it do the same as the water gauge and report a fixed temperature (as it has been doing), or should it fluctuate?
 
I phoned PGB after we spoke to find out if they knew the "rule" and spoke to Rob in customer service. He was very helpful but couldn't answer technical questions directly, instead saying he'd link into your ticket when it arrives and try to speed up an answer.
 
From my perspective, whether the oil temperature should fluctuate or whether it should remain constant is largely irrelevant to my concern at present. It was doing one thing, now it's doing the other. Logic dictates something must have changed during the service to move it from one action to the other. What that is you cannot yet find, but there must be something or it wouldn't have changed?
 
Are you entirely 100% happy that the car is fully serviceable and drivable and that no damage will be done by continuing to drive it when there has been a change in reporting an important parameter? Or should I put it away in the garage until we have more information from PGB? What is your recommendation please?
 
Many thanks for your assistance."

I'm 100% sure something has been missed or altered by the servicing OPC. 

[DJMC]

OPC service manager has phoned again. The chap I spoke to from Porsche GB CS has contacted him and suggested he keeps the car while they investigate, meanwhile PGB will provide me with a loan car. 

Interesting that PGB have picked up on my issue before even receiving the ticket from the OPC. That's really quite impressive. 
Service manager confirmed they will get the ticket off to PGB this afternoon. He also told me the car has no oil thermostats. Everything is vacuum operated apparently. 

That may tie in with what Ian, the workshop manager at RPM Technik, told me when I asked him for an opinion as to what could be causing the fault. He suggested the OPC may have knocked a vacuum line off somewhere. 

[Mk1]

Good progress / feedback ... thank you. 

[Mutley]

Hi DJMC, sorry to hear you are having these issues. Good that PGB are on top of the issue. 

Not meaning to deviate from the issue at hand but interested to know how and why PGB agreed to compensate for stone chips to wheels? Unless maybe they caused it?

[PMGPete]

Could a software update as part of a service be another potential?

[DJMC]

OK, I have answers now. Rob at PGB CS has phoned me back...

1/ Whereas the water temp gauge shows a fixed 90C to confirm a satisfactory buffered range of temperatures behind the scenes (acting as a "green light"), the oil temp gauge DOES report the actual oil temperature.

2/ An oil temp warning activates below around 80C, and above what is considered normal (not stated), but does not activate during warm-up due to "warm-up mapping" where the car knows not to alert the driver to oil temp. It will only throw a warning if oil temp drops too low after initial warm-up.

3/ 80C is the minimum oil temp Porsche allow when testing vehicles so as to ensure oil flow and component protection. 100C is the ideal oil temp in Normal mode so that water produced by the combustion cycle can evaporate from the engine.

4/ My prior fixed reading of 105C was a FAULT which, had I reported it to PGB when it was occurring, would have been a concern as it should fluctuate. Those whose cars show a similar FIXED reading may wish to have this investigated. Although my displayed oil temp was inaccurate there is no reason to believe there have been any actual mechanical problems. Oil pressure is normal, the car has never used a drop of oil in 40k miles.

5/ No cause has been discovered for the faulty constant 105C reading as I hadn't reported it to the OPC and so they quite rightly just went ahead and did the service. It may have been some debris was present which has been removed by draining and refilling the oil. I guess the 105C reading wouldn't have been recorded as a fault by the car as it is within operating limits.

6/ PGB are paying for the oil to be changed again, just to be sure there is no contamination floating around from such debris.

I'm relatively happy now that I know the car is right and it was its previous state which was wrong, and not vice versa. I'll still keep an eye on oil temp to make sure it does get up to 100C even if it's averaging below this.

Excellent assistance from Rob at PGB CS who I have to commend for the way he has handled my concerns. Car will be back with me Monday after the repeat oil/filter change.

[DJMC]

On 13/03/2018 at 17:50, Mutley said:

Hi DJMC, sorry to hear you are having these issues. Good that PGB are on top of the issue. 

Not meaning to deviate from the issue at hand but interested to know how and why PGB agreed to compensate for stone chips to wheels? Unless maybe they caused it?

 

They argued wear and tear. I argued poor paint AND they missed it in the 111 point check I paid for prior to purchase. They eventually relented for "goodwill."

[Mutley]

Fair play. I saw your thread on this over at PH. Glad you got the issue sorted

[DJMC]

More wrong...

 

First long run today... 150 miles or so.

 

Fine getting there. But absolutely no cabin heat on the way back. Freezing. Stopped 10 miles form home and there was a strange clicking sound from the dash, around 80 clicks per minute. Back on the road ten minutes later and cabin heat was back with no clicking sound.

 

Yet another result of taking it to an OPC for service? Who knows. Reported to PGB today by email. I had no issues whatsoever BEFORE it went for its service. Have said I will NOT return to the same OPC as I have lost confidence. Did I mention I'd taken their loan car back as arranged at 9.15 on the Saturday morning a few weeks back? I got up at 7am, drove for an hour, arrived at 9.15am and the OPC was SHUT. They'd decided they couldn't get in because of the snow it turns out. I MANAGED TO!!! On my way home again, in the loan car, I got a text at 10.03 telling me they wouldn't be in today.

 

Also not happy with OPC due to a new stone chip on the bonnet when they delivered (drove) it back to me. OK, it could happen to anyone, and I could have noticed it before the driver left, but why not own up and tell me?

Also not happy with OPC that they put Tesco fuel in it. How do I know? Dash cam.

Also not happy with OPC technicians discussing whether or not PGB should have given me a free oil change. How do I know? Dash cam. You should see the footage of them discussing how the car's oil cooling works. I don't think they know what they're doing. I even had some doubts this was an official Porsche dealer! 

 

 

[Bushman]

maybe a copy of the dashcam recordings should mysteriously find its way to Porsche GB