Julian987 Posted April 19, 2022 Share Posted April 19, 2022 4 hours ago, MartinF6 said: The silver one is great. I would love to buy it! Thats the one for you! good luck with it, i hope it comes together as you've been waiting a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian987 Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 On 14/04/2022 at 11:08, MartinF6 said: Most 987 S advertised with leather seats actually have leather-look plastic seats! unsure if 997 seats fit 987 but if they do and anyone looking for seats then I spotted these today. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165433311743?hash=item26849801ff:g:ONYAAOSwjdliWDE5 no affiliation with the auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinF6 Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) 997 seats = 987 seats. Same seats. Mostly same car. Those look rather bodgy to me. They're non-Sport seats with wings and stuff added. Quality looks pretty patchy. Or should I say, wavey! Edited April 20, 2022 by MartinF6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andrea Posted April 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted April 21, 2022 On a side note, it's amazing how many people think 997 are a completely different car from 987 (or I should say they think makes financial sense for a company to redesign a whole car) Quite the opposite. Doors are exactly the same part. Windscreen, the whole front end frame and mid frame up to the seats is the same, front wings have the same mounting points, windscreen, interior floor, seats and rear subframe mounting points (hence the 3.8 swaps on the Cayman). Yet 997 owners think they've got some sort of special parts coated in unicorn powder 🙈 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinF6 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Yes, it's a single modular platform. Front half to 2/3 of the car is the same into which either a rear or mid-rear engine module is inserted. Same engine, of course, unless GTx / Turbo. 997 does have multi-link rear suspension, but that's the only difference of substance. The usual refrain is that the 911 and Cayster 'share parts'. But actually, more accurately, they are derivations of the same car where some parts differ to achieve the two engine layouts and tweak the cosmetics. Incidentally, one thing you mentioned that's not correct is the windscreen. They do not share windscreens. Cayster has a lower roof and shallower screen. All of this applies to 981 and 991, too (bar the outer door skins which are different). So when they made the 991 Speedster, they simply used the Boxster screen frame and windscreen (and door windows) to achieve the cut-down look. Instant unicorn, just don't tell the owners that it's even more closely related to a Boxster than the standard 991. And for the mid-engine 991 RSR racer, they used Cayster rear end pressings to achieve the mid-engine layout. It's clever engineering and marketing. A base 997 or 991 goes for a huge premium over a 987 or 981 S, but materially there's nothing in it, it's just a question of whether you prefer mid-rear or rear engine location and two seats or two-plus-two. In the 991, you don't even get an extra 200cc. It's all good if you prefer mid-rear. We get access to our preferred layout at a massive discount. Having to pay the 911 brand tax in return for no more car would be very annoying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Is more the cockiness of 911 owners looking down on Cayman/Boxster owners 😅 I'm sure at some point there will be a base996 owner at a cars&coffee telling a 718GT4RS owner "yeah nice car mate but it's not a 911 sadly" 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinF6 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Of all the odd pricing going on at the moment, I think this wins: https://911virgin.com/listings/987-3-4s-gen-ii-manual-2009/ https://911virgin.com/listings/cayman-987-2-3-4s-manual-2010/ Two white 3.4S, both at 911 Virgin. Very similar spec. One has Sports seats, PASM, Chrono, Xenons. The other has Sports seats, PSE, Chrono, Bose. Neither has the cow. The both even have decals and 19s. The PASM car is on 40K miles, the non-PASM car is on 65k. The PASM car is yours for £28.5K. The non-PASM car with 25K extra miles...£30k! What's the logic?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash131 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 Sale or return is my guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinF6 Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 OK, yep. That could be it. They do sit rather oddly next to each other on the same dealer page... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_jdmr Posted April 21, 2022 Share Posted April 21, 2022 It certainly seems the 987 3.4S market at the current market seems to be 28-30k for the nicer cars. The days of a 40k fully optioned car for 23k are long gone imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian987 Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 7 hours ago, MartinF6 said: Of all the odd pricing going on at the moment, I think this wins: https://911virgin.com/listings/987-3-4s-gen-ii-manual-2009/ https://911virgin.com/listings/cayman-987-2-3-4s-manual-2010/ Two white 3.4S, both at 911 Virgin. Very similar spec. One has Sports seats, PASM, Chrono, Xenons. The other has Sports seats, PSE, Chrono, Bose. Neither has the cow. The both even have decals and 19s. The PASM car is on 40K miles, the non-PASM car is on 65k. The PASM car is yours for £28.5K. The non-PASM car with 25K extra miles...£30k! What's the logic?! seems simple to me, the more expensive one has PSE, heated seats, a tracker, PCM3 over the CDR30..... Seems very logical to me as mileage and PASM is not the be all and end all. The white and blue one is stunning, what a colour combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinF6 Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 (edited) In terms of market value, mileage is the single most important factor as a matter of objective fact. You can say it doesn't matter if you want. Try selling a car with 200k and see how much it doesn't matter. Likewise, try selling a one with a few thousand miles on the clock. Dramatically different outcomes! PASM is not the be all and end all, but it's a significant item and I would say much more so than things like a tracker, and an ancient nav system. It's not that PASM makes the other car worth more. But spec wise, there's not a huge amount in it. They are similar. In terms of significant spec items not appearing on the other car, one has PASM and Xenons, the other Bose and PSE. Take your pick, I'd say the overall spec levels are roughly equal. But 40k miles versus 65k miles is quite a big difference. Values of these cars dip quite a bit over 70k miles. I'm not saying that's justified in terms of the mechanics, but it is what it is. Oh and the white and blue colour combo is about £80's worth of stickers and a wheel refurb, so not hugely significant. Edited April 22, 2022 by MartinF6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian987 Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 36 minutes ago, MartinF6 said: In terms of market value, mileage is the single most important factor as a matter of objective fact. You can say it doesn't matter if you want. Try selling a car with 200k and see how much it doesn't matter. Likewise, try selling a one with a few thousand miles on the clock. Dramatically different outcomes! PASM is not the be all and end all, but it's a significant item and I would say much more so than things like a tracker, and an ancient nav system. It's not that PASM makes the other car worth more. But spec wise, there's not a huge amount in it. They are similar. In terms of significant spec items not appearing on the other car, one has PASM and Xenons, the other Bose and PSE. Take your pick, I'd say the overall spec levels are roughly equal. But 40k miles versus 65k miles is quite a big difference. Values of these cars dip quite a bit over 70k miles. I'm not saying that's justified in terms of the mechanics, but it is what it is. Oh and the white and blue colour combo is about £80's worth of stickers and a wheel refurb, so not hugely significant. Yep I agree when a car is up at 100K+ mileage but what with the scarcity of good Gen 2's then I can't see much difference between 40k and 65k miles for the mindset of the right car at the right time for someone. It wouldn't me, so of course i am not basing anything on fact, just a straw poll of one I am sure there is method-to-their-madness being a reputable dealer such as 911virgin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegan_porsche_driver Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 On 19/04/2022 at 09:39, Ash131 said: Yes it’s mine, selling as we have a transit van which I use as I’m a builder and we have just swapped the wife’s Evoque for a Ford Ranger to take advantage of the 130% tax relief. The Ranger is massive for the wife to pop to wherever in but great for our other business so selling to buy a smaller car that we can both use but still get a buzz from. Won't she drive the Cayman?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash131 Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 No but the good news is she is getting used to her Ranger so probably will keep the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinF6 Posted April 22, 2022 Share Posted April 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Julian987 said: Yep I agree when a car is up at 100K+ mileage but what with the scarcity of good Gen 2's then I can't see much difference between 40k and 65k miles for the mindset of the right car at the right time for someone. It wouldn't me, so of course i am not basing anything on fact, just a straw poll of one I am sure there is method-to-their-madness being a reputable dealer such as 911virgin. There are currently at least six other white gen 2 3.4 manuals for sale - just the white ones! - five of which are lower miles. Plus a load of PDK cars. They are not that scarce, they really aren't. That higher priced one at 911V isn't particularly well specced. And the reality, for better or worse, is that 40k versus 65k does make a difference to valuation. I'm not saying it makes sense. But for this class of car, mileage is a major factor. And yes, 911V know what they are doing. But it's still odd pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ash131 Posted April 22, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted April 22, 2022 I honestly think the price of these cars will keep rising year on year, look back when you could pick up a 964 or 993 for under 20k. The 987 for me is the last of what I describe as the classic shape. These cars are not a keep up with the Jones’s they are class at the price of a small modern hatch. 30k will be the start point soon for a good quality one very soon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porschaholic Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 16 hours ago, Ash131 said: I honestly think the price of these cars will keep rising year on year, look back when you could pick up a 964 or 993 for under 20k. The 987 for me is the last of what I describe as the classic shape. These cars are not a keep up with the Jones’s they are class at the price of a small modern hatch. 30k will be the start point soon for a good quality one very soon. I am inclined to agree. Prices of all used cars have risen, but it seems the Cayman more so. Maybe, this is the new 'normal'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginginho Posted April 23, 2022 Author Share Posted April 23, 2022 It seems to me as though rising fuel prices have caused selling prices to have plateaued since the turn of the year. The good ones are still selling but those that don't stand out or are strongly priced are hanging around. Longer term I think that the only threat to Cayman values would be if they were targeted by the government as part of carrot/stick approach to using more economical cars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
and.rs1800 Posted April 23, 2022 Share Posted April 23, 2022 On 22/04/2022 at 14:33, Ash131 said: I honestly think the price of these cars will keep rising year on year, look back when you could pick up a 964 or 993 for under 20k. The 987 for me is the last of what I describe as the classic shape. These cars are not a keep up with the Jones’s they are class at the price of a small modern hatch. 30k will be the start point soon for a good quality one very soon. I’m still kicking myself when I didn’t buy my mrs a 3.2 carrera targa many years ago.it was less than 10 grand ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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