Help me convince my friend a 3.4 Cayman gen 2 is a better decision than a Z4. Any takers?

[Ginginho]

Of the options, I'd go with a GT86 for a street-parked daily personally.

[Julian987]

6 hours ago, hopz121 said:

 

Hi, thanks for the reply. 

 

There isn't really a budget to be honest but for arguments sake lets say around the £12,000 mark give or take a bit.

 

I think a gen 1 2.7 is realistically all I am willing to spend though and it would have to be a manual.

 

Ideally I'd like a high mileage one which has had some maintenance over the years and not needing loads of work done to it. 

 

Not worried if the bodywork is a bit ropey it just needs to be mechanically sound and a fair price, I wont be paying over the odd's for one as its not really going to be a toy.

 

Thanks

 

Ash

 

Hi Ash

Of what is available around the £12K mark, it is slim pickings...but the best one i reckon is this one....

 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205065412420

 

The mileage isn't that bad all things considered. Others in that price range are 90/100K+

this one has Porsche Specialist history which is good, and recently serviced.

the seats have the full leather back, rather than the plastic shells. 

the new PCCM+ for the 987.1 is due out very very soon (pics and manual of it already out in circulation) which would then bring the car really up to date.

 

lower the car and get a side decal and you have a nice mini R looking car.

 

Another couple of £K and you are into S land

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265692261293?hash=item3ddc7e2bad:g:F0oAAOSwmo5igAwv

 

 

 

 

 

[Aaron]

3 hours ago, hopz121 said:

I don’t need practical I just want it to be sporty, reliable, safe ish investment and small.
 

I enjoy driving so I am looking for something that ticks that box. 
 

I have a practical ish car currently as a daily and no one ever really sits in it and it’s just a bit boring to be honest. 
 

Not many other cars fall into the criteria to be honest hence trying to narrow it down a bit 

 

I would recommend holding out for a GT4 or 718 GTS 4.0 as prices come down again on that basis.  You get the chassis with a gen 1 2.7 but that's about it.  It's not the mid engined 911 that the GT4 is, for example.  I would highly recommend a 987R too, as I chose it over both the 981S and 718S (no NA option back then).

 

And another consensus you will see with the 987: whilst the initial cost for a 987.1 is cheaper upfront, overall long term costs are higher than a 987.2.  The .2, especially S, are holding their values nicely.

[yuffyhaggo]

Gen1 2.7 is a great car. Gen2 2.9 is even better but the bargain is more likely to be had on the Gen1 based on production numbers.

 

2.7 with 5 speed. Lovely bit of kit!!

 

Money no object I would take a Cayman S every time obviously, but you get all the driving thrills with the lower capacity versions and it's not like the 3.4 is particularly "fast" anyway.

[Julian987]

21 hours ago, Aaron said:

 

I would recommend holding out for a GT4 or 718 GTS 4.0 as prices come down again on that basis.  You get the chassis with a gen 1 2.7 but that's about it.  It's not the mid engined 911 that the GT4 is, for example.  I would highly recommend a 987R too, as I chose it over both the 981S and 718S (no NA option back then).

 

And another consensus you will see with the 987: whilst the initial cost for a 987.1 is cheaper upfront, overall long term costs are higher than a 987.2.  The .2, especially S, are holding their values nicely.

 

thing is though is that their budget is £12K. 

The isn't much going on that that entry price but have posted a few above which might be worth a look for them.

 

[Aaron]

2 hours ago, Julian987 said:

 

thing is though is that their budget is £12K. 

The isn't much going on that that entry price but have posted a few above which might be worth a look for them.

 

 

That's precisely why I recommended to hold out for the car the OP actually wants, and not to buy a Porsche with the £12k budget available.

[hopz121]

Thanks for the help and advice all.
 

I think Aaron is right and that I should save for the Porsche I really want and fit now I’ll take a gt86 or a z4 for daily duties.

 

I love the thought of owning a 2.7 Gen 1 but in reality I think the GT86 / Z4 is the better car for my daily needs. Also Porsche costs add up and I think eventually I’d begrudge paying big money to fix a 2.7 to be honest. 
 

When I can afford I’ll sell the M3 and go for a GT4  

[MartinF6]

4 hours ago, hopz121 said:

Also Porsche costs add up and I think eventually I’d begrudge paying big money to fix a 2.7 to be honest. 

 

 

Yup, this is a critical point. It's also why I'm being so slow with my latest purchase. If it's the 'right' car it's so much easier to accept putting money into it. If the car isn't what you really want / isn't quite right, it's no fun to pour money into it.

[Julian987]

10 hours ago, hopz121 said:

Thanks for the help and advice all.
 

I think Aaron is right and that I should save for the Porsche I really want and fit now I’ll take a gt86 or a z4 for daily duties.

 

I love the thought of owning a 2.7 Gen 1 but in reality I think the GT86 / Z4 is the better car for my daily needs. Also Porsche costs add up and I think eventually I’d begrudge paying big money to fix a 2.7 to be honest. 
 

When I can afford I’ll sell the M3 and go for a GT4  

 

Not to pry, but may i ask, how long do you anticipate being in a position to buy a Gt4. Don't take this the wrong way but if you are at a budget of 12k currently then its a good £60k short of a Gt4, and could take a decade to save up that amount - that is based on my circumstances, not yours i should add. But if you were I, or vice versa, by the time I'd have the funds for a Gt4, the ban on ICE cars will be upon us. therefore, get your fill with a 987 for now....and whats to say a GT86 / Z4 won't leave you with a bill. 

 

 

[hopz121]

14 hours ago, Julian987 said:

 

Not to pry, but may i ask, how long do you anticipate being in a position to buy a Gt4. Don't take this the wrong way but if you are at a budget of 12k currently then its a good £60k short of a Gt4, and could take a decade to save up that amount - that is based on my circumstances, not yours i should add. But if you were I, or vice versa, by the time I'd have the funds for a Gt4, the ban on ICE cars will be upon us. therefore, get your fill with a 987 for now....and whats to say a GT86 / Z4 won't leave you with a bill. 

 

 

Currently am around £15-£20k short of a GT4 with the sale of my M3 and my savings pot (Same pot used to buy the daily hence not wanting to spend all of it and trying to buy something which will hold value if I decide to sell) so if I save hard and the new daily doesn’t plummet in value then I should be in the position within a couple of years (hopefully the market softens a bit too) 

 

I have ploughed more cash into my current daily than it cost me to buy originally and I do begrudge it and I wouldn’t want that to happen with a cayman, any money I spend fixing something ultimately takes me further away from a GT4!

[MartinF6]

I think the Z4 is the best bet for that remit.

 

The coupe is pretty rare, values are definitely on the up. I would think you could put some miles on one and not lose too much. Buy a nice low mile 987 for top dollar and put miles on it and you will lose a fair bit of money, plus the maintenance costs.

 

You could buy, say, a 90k mile Z4 coupe for about £9k and still get maybe £7k back (or more if values really go up) after putting 30k miles on over a couple of years.

 

The GT86 is a decent option. I would say that will depreciate more, but cost less to run and overall cost to own will be similar. Will probably need to tie up more cash in the meantime to buy one versus the Z. GT86 is great in many ways, but personally I could not live with the engine.

[Aaron]

Buy a £1000 shitter and run it into the ground.  Far more cost effective than any of the options thus far and gets you into a GT4 faster in the future...

[hopz121]

7 minutes ago, Aaron said:

Buy a £1000 shitter and run it into the ground.  Far more cost effective than any of the options thus far and gets you into a GT4 faster in the future...

I did that Aaron on the last two cars and it has back fired and has cost me a fair chunk of cash 

[Aaron]

18 hours ago, hopz121 said:

I did that Aaron on the last two cars and it has back fired and has cost me a fair chunk of cash 

 

You're not supposed to repair a £1000 car though, unless it's extremely reasonable.  You go out and buy another £1000 car when it breaks and continue the cycle.  Even if you need 4 cars in 4 years, that's only £4k minus insurance swaps, leaving you ~£8k better off and it's not as if you would've paid servicing costs, etc.

[Julian987]

20 hours ago, hopz121 said:

I did that Aaron on the last two cars and it has back fired and has cost me a fair chunk of cash 

I still can’t work out why you’d want a GT4 as a daily. The 50mile a day equates to about 13,000 miles a year. Plus let’s say another 2000 for non work drives. 
 

+15000 miles on a GT4 will seriously affect the resale value ONLY after the first year of ownership. It shouldn’t do, but it does, and therefore I think you’d be wiser to work your way through the model range starting with a 987.

 

 

 

 

[hopz121]

55 minutes ago, Julian987 said:

I still can’t work out why you’d want a GT4 as a daily. The 50mile a day equates to about 13,000 miles a year. Plus let’s say another 2000 for non work drives. 
 

+15000 miles on a GT4 will seriously affect the resale value ONLY after the first year of ownership. It shouldn’t do, but it does, and therefore I think you’d be wiser to work your way through the model range starting with a 987.

 

 

 

 

I think there has been some confusion here Julian, I wouldn’t be daily driving a GT4 it would replace my E46 M3 as a toy. 
 

If I was in the position to buy a GT4 but was £10k short and I had a daily worth £10k I’d sell it and buy a £500 motor to tie me over whilst I save for another daily. 
 

The plan is to buy a daily to enjoy that wouldn’t depreciate loads in value so that if I do ever need to sell it to make the GT4 dream a reality then I still have some equity. 
 

The GT4 May never happen as I am sure house moves and other life choices will get it the way and chew up my savings pot, but if it doesn’t I’ll still have a half decent daily and an E46 M3 to drive at the weekends, which isn't really a hardship.  

[Julian987]

1 hour ago, hopz121 said:

I think there has been some confusion here Julian, I wouldn’t be daily driving a GT4 it would replace my E46 M3 as a toy. 
 

If I was in the position to buy a GT4 but was £10k short and I had a daily worth £10k I’d sell it and buy a £500 motor to tie me over whilst I save for another daily. 
 

The plan is to buy a daily to enjoy that wouldn’t depreciate loads in value so that if I do ever need to sell it to make the GT4 dream a reality then I still have some equity. 
 

The GT4 May never happen as I am sure house moves and other life choices will get it the way and chew up my savings pot, but if it doesn’t I’ll still have a half decent daily and an E46 M3 to drive at the weekends, which isn't really a hardship.  

 

I see, thank you for clarifying. 

ok, so....what with the £12k budget which, Cayman wise, is going to be in the high mileage Gen 1 land, then the accumulated daily miles is only going to compound matters when it comes to selling it. 

Not knowing the other cars you are considering but if they are less susceptible to miles -vs- value then maybe thats the route to go. 

And toy wise, you get a lot of car for your money, and safe from depreciation, with a Cayman R. hint hint 😉

 

 

[hopz121]

1 hour ago, Julian987 said:

 

I see, thank you for clarifying. 

ok, so....what with the £12k budget which, Cayman wise, is going to be in the high mileage Gen 1 land, then the accumulated daily miles is only going to compound matters when it comes to selling it. 

Not knowing the other cars you are considering but if they are less susceptible to miles -vs- value then maybe thats the route to go. 

And toy wise, you get a lot of car for your money, and safe from depreciation, with a Cayman R. hint hint 😉

 

 

I knew that was going to come

up haha I love a Cayman R but it doesn’t do it enough for me unfortunately. I have been fortunate enough to use my dads old 987.2 BE PDK on a Scotland trip and it was excellent it really was but I still think it was slightly lacking compared to my M3. I know an R will be even more focused than a BE but I can’t see how it would be too much different.
 

A GT4 on the other hand should be epic and would warrant the trade. Never driven one but I drove my dads new to him 718 GTS a couple of weeks ago which shares some GT4 parts and apart from the lack of 6 cylinder noise it is excellent I must admit and I think it would be fairly close to the GT4.

 

Thanks for the help and advice though it’s been a great discussion. I think unless I find a fully sorted high mileage cayman for a decent price that it’s not going to happen and that money would be better spent elsewhere. 
 

 

[Aaron]

55 minutes ago, hopz121 said:

I knew that was going to come

up haha I love a Cayman R but it doesn’t do it enough for me unfortunately. I have been fortunate enough to use my dads old 987.2 BE PDK on a Scotland trip and it was excellent it really was but I still think it was slightly lacking compared to my M3. I know an R will be even more focused than a BE but I can’t see how it would be too much different.
 

A GT4 on the other hand should be epic and would warrant the trade. Never driven one but I drove my dads new to him 718 GTS a couple of weeks ago which shares some GT4 parts and apart from the lack of 6 cylinder noise it is excellent I must admit and I think it would be fairly close to the GT4.

 

Thanks for the help and advice though it’s been a great discussion. I think unless I find a fully sorted high mileage cayman for a decent price that it’s not going to happen and that money would be better spent elsewhere. 
 

 

 

Oh, but it is!  The lighter weight and suspension make all of the difference.  I would highly recommend that you test drive one before casting it out.  It's a 987 in its purest form.

 

You have to look at the price difference between the CR against the 981 GT4 and 718 GTS 4.0 to truly appreciate its value.  The GT4 and GTS 4.0 will cost you twice the price of a CR, but is it twice the car?  I don't think so.  That's why I've held onto mine for so long (5.5 years now).

 

As you're so torn with which path to take, I wouldn't throw out anything without at least test driving it.

[Julian987]

2 hours ago, Aaron said:

 

Oh, but it is!  The lighter weight and suspension make all of the difference.  I would highly recommend that you test drive one before casting it out.  It's a 987 in its purest form.

 

You have to look at the price difference between the CR against the 981 GT4 and 718 GTS 4.0 to truly appreciate its value.  The GT4 and GTS 4.0 will cost you twice the price of a CR, but is it twice the car?  I don't think so.  That's why I've held onto mine for so long (5.5 years now).

 

As you're so torn with which path to take, I wouldn't throw out anything without at least test driving it.

i concur. At least test drive an R and a GT4. You haven’t test drove the very car that you are saving up for 🤷‍♂️