Clutch replacement questions (987.1 - 2.7)

[sevenfourate]

Evening guys.

 

From the very first test drive; on my Gen1 2.7 Cayman it was obvious there was some slight 'juddering' from cold pulling away. Me being new / green to all things Porsche didn't know if this was somehow 'normal. I now gather its most definitely not.

 

Car drives perfect, changes / selects gears perfectly and pulls away without issue. Apart from the slight judder / grab. Which is always there from cold. But pretty much not there; or hugely reduced when up to temp. I can only imagine from previous experience on other cars this is clutch related....

 

From research i gather it's normal to change the clutch (Sachs is original equipment ?) and Dual Mass flywheel (LUK?) at the same time. Info online suggest 7-10 years would be expected life from a Cayman clutch. Although my car has only done 46k - it is 12 years old. And may well have done more stop / starts or had a harder life clutch-wise than a 80k car that's done many motorway type miles.

 

Supplying dealer has said if i pay for parts they will cover  the labour. That aside i think i'll get my 30 year tried and trusted garage to do it - as the owner is a Porsche fan, has owned quite a few himself, currently has a 911 Turbo; and has changed many Boxster clutches for customers - which is essentially the very same job.

 

So:

 

1./ Are these the correct (Best ?) parts / is £440 [With 15% discount code applied] a good price for Sachs Clutch kit / LUK flywheel:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-Cayman-2005-On-Boxster-987-2004-2012-Dual-Mass-Flywheel-Clutch-Kit/293194686756

 

2./ Anything else i should be looking at / checking / replacing while in there ? (I gather IMS shouldn't be a issue on a 2007 as bearing has been updated, and my RMS is as dry as bone currently ?????).

 

3./ Any other thoughts are appreciated.........

 

Thanks as always.

 

 

 

 

[Woodhouse]

Make sure the clutch kit includes the release bearing.  On my previous Gen 1 S, the bearing fell apart on removal at 58k miles.  The guide tube that the release bearing slides on was very worn too. Not expensive.  The combination of worn release bearing and guide tube produced a juddery feel through the pedal, which is the reason I changed the clutch.  I also changed the flywheel and RMS.  The flywheel failed the rotation test and the RMS was weeping, though no real evidence externally.  The RMS change needs a special tool to ensure it is inserted square and to the correct depth.  My local OPC lent me the factory tool but your friendly garage should know about this if they've done lots.  On another Gen 1 S we had, the IMS bearing cover was leaking so had to be changed.

 

Your garage will also know about the exhaust stud corrosion problem and should fit stainless bolts instead of the pressed in and welded studs.  This aspect more than doubled the whole job time for me and is an utter pig compared to the doddle of the rest of the job.  

[sevenfourate]

1 hour ago, Woodhouse said:

Make sure the clutch kit includes the release bearing.  On my previous Gen 1 S, the bearing fell apart on removal at 58k miles.  The guide tube that the release bearing slides on was very worn too. Not expensive.  The combination of worn release bearing and guide tube produced a juddery feel through the pedal, which is the reason I changed the clutch.  I also changed the flywheel and RMS.  The flywheel failed the rotation test and the RMS was weeping, though no real evidence externally.  The RMS change needs a special tool to ensure it is inserted square and to the correct depth.  My local OPC lent me the factory tool but your friendly garage should know about this if they've done lots.  On another Gen 1 S we had, the IMS bearing cover was leaking so had to be changed.

 

Your garage will also know about the exhaust stud corrosion problem and should fit stainless bolts instead of the pressed in and welded studs.  This aspect more than doubled the whole job time for me and is an utter pig compared to the doddle of the rest of the job.  

 

At work - but GREAT info.

 

Thanks for your time and thoughts. Plenty to chew on there...

[GlosRich]

Maybe clutch slave cylinder also. Also check in the service record for any evidence of the clutch being changed, as at 12 years it may have been.

 

Engine mounts also might cause juddering, although most times it is a worn dual mass flywheel.

 

I'd be wanting some contribution or all the cost from the supplying garage, as you dont expect this on a car you have just purchased.

 

Again I would live with it for a while longer, if its basically ok, maybe you are being too critical?

[sevenfourate]

11 minutes ago, GlosRich said:

Maybe clutch slave cylinder also. Also check in the service record for any evidence of the clutch being changed, as at 12 years it may have been.

 

Engine mounts also might cause juddering, although most times it is a worn dual mass flywheel.

 

I'd be wanting some contribution or all the cost from the supplying garage, as you dont expect this on a car you have just purchased.

 

Again I would live with it for a while longer, if its basically ok, maybe you are being too critical?

 

Hi Rich.

 

Thanks for additional thoughts. Slave cylinder being the obvious one that had immediately crossed my mind too....

 

I have no doubts it will go on a lot longer - but have done quite a bit of ‘renewing’ parts already and this is the only gripe left. Plus I haven’t gone this far to ‘skimp’. It’s the nature of buying a second hand car - and me being more critical than most perhaps.

 

Rightly or wrongly I have some slight doubts about supplying  dealer going the work (Which I’d have to pay for parts either way) - and he’s 120 mile round trip away. Twice over.

 

So a much safer bet is to have my tried and trusted mechanic do the work locally (He’s moves to literally next door to my work) and be somewhat in control of proceedings.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

[sevenfourate]

About to hopefully purchase the new OE clutch kit and flywheel. Found it even cheaper too for anyone interested (£379 for Sachs 3 piece clutch kit and LUK Dual Mass Flywheel !):

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORSCHE-Transmission-Dual-Mass-Flywheel-Clutch-Kit-By-Sachs-LuK/223439953556?fits=Car+Make%3APorsche&hash=item34060f1e94:g:APQAAOSwh0NcghCj

 

Part numbers all seem to make out and are the same on 3 or 4 different ebay adverts....BUT it says fits engine code: ENGINE CODE: M97.21

 

Is this the engine code for a Gen1 2.7 ? Info i've found on Porsche Club GB  suggests not ! (Unless a base and 'S' share the same clutch / flywheel possibly ????)

 

 

Porsche Cayman (987/981/718) engines:

 

987.1

2007–2009 2.7 litre "M97.20" 245 PS flat-six (VarioCam Plus)

2005-2006 3.4 litre "M96" 295 PS flat-six (VarioCam Plus). S model

2006–2009 3.4 litre "M97.21" 295 PS flat-six (VarioCam Plus) S model

 

 

Confused if this is the correct part / will fit now 😕

 

[C9YMAN]

Thats a great price, anyone know why the dual mass fly wheel for gen 2's are so much more expensive at £1000 !

[Windymiller]

15 minutes ago, C9YMAN said:

Thats a great price, anyone know why the dual mass fly wheel for gen 2's are so much more expensive at £1000 !

That is a great price for both clutch kit and DMF. 

 

Just had both mine replaced (see my other post on the 987 forum somewhere), and for a 987.2 S the parts came to ~£1250 (and the ONLY place you can buy a gen 2 S DMF is porsche sadly 😠). 

 

As woodhouse states earlier, be prepared for 5-6hrs of labour costa potentially, largely to remove the corroded exhaust fixings.... 🤨

 

hope the job goes well 748, I was surprised at how much difference a new clutch has made 👍🏻

[sevenfourate]

3 minutes ago, Windymiller said:

That is a great price for both clutch kit and DMF. 

 

Just had both mine replaced (see my other post on the 987 forum somewhere), and for a 987.2 S the parts came to ~£1250 (and the ONLY place you can buy a gen 2 S DMF is porsche sadly 😠). 

 

As woodhouse states earlier, be prepared for 5-6hrs of labour costa potentially, largely to remove the corroded exhaust fixings.... 🤨

 

hope the job goes well 748, I was surprised at how much difference a new clutch has made 👍🏻

 

TBF if the kit is correct for my car @£370 odd and 5'ish hours labour at my indy covers installation - it will be an altogether different bill to yours ! I'll be ringing first thing tomorrow to confirm fitment. And jumping on it at that price if so....

 

Glad to hear it made such a difference for you***Why did you change - what were your 'symptoms / issues' ?

 

Thanks 

[C9YMAN]

11 minutes ago, Windymiller said:

That is a great price for both clutch kit and DMF. 

 

Just had both mine replaced (see my other post on the 987 forum somewhere), and for a 987.2 S the parts came to ~£1250 (and the ONLY place you can buy a gen 2 S DMF is porsche sadly 😠). 

 

As woodhouse states earlier, be prepared for 5-6hrs of labour costa potentially, largely to remove the corroded exhaust fixings.... 🤨

 

hope the job goes well 748, I was surprised at how much difference a new clutch has made 👍🏻

 

Yes Windy the £1000 is just for the DMF.

 

Whats the biggest difference you noticed with the new clutch ? and how did you know the flywheel needed to be changed ?

[Windymiller]

My pedal went very light, and the clutch ‘take up’ became almost binary on/off, rather than with a progressive degree of slip. 

 

Id always thought the clutch bite point seemed high, from first buying in 2017, but thought its ‘just a Porsche thing’...

 

Some of The sprung ‘fingers’ on the pressure plate had snapped. 

 

And the DMF failed its rotational test.  So, ‘in for a penny, in for a pound’... 🤪

 

Now the bite point is ‘immediate’ and feels far more progressive as it takes up the slip. 

 

I also think it ‘feels’ like a more ‘effective’ Engine to gearbox transfer of energy - ie, like nowts being wasted via the clutch and DMF - but this is totally subjective, and probably my way of justifying the £1900 bill to myself 😉🤔

Edited August 29, 2019 by Windymiller

[Eddie Buckley]

FWIW the PO of my car had issues with the IMS and RMS as he was in the process of buying it. The Vendor replaced both these and the flywheel and clutch at the same time. The PO paid for the new clutch and Flywheeel at trade rates to get it all done at once. My car has since only done 2000 miles. [60,000 total Cayman S 2007]

Eddie  E18CAY