The New Michelin Pilot Sport 4S

[The Doc]

 

The bold claim from Michelin on the launch of their new tyre is they expect the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S to be "one of the most successful sports tires ever designed by Michelin for the general public."

 

A tyre that is designed for sports cars and high performance saloons, we are also told that the Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S offers "unparalleled driving pleasure thanks to its exceptional steering precision and directional stability.  It provides maximum performance and safety on all surfaces due to its optimized tread footprint which grips the road in all situations, even the most extreme."

 

 

The new Michelin Pilot Sport 4 S replaces the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres, and are available from all the major tyre retailers as of this month.  The new tyre is available at launch in 34 sizes for 19 and 20 inch wheels.  The outgoing MPSS was already an exceptionally well rated tyre by many and a firm favourite across the Cayman and Porsche fraternity, so the replacement certainly has a lot to live up to. 

 

Tyre Sizes (at launch)

 

 

Braking Performance

The PS4S' dual compound technology benefits both the tyre's wet and dry surface braking performance.  The outer tread uses a new hybrid compound that promotes grip on dry surfaces while the inner part uses a new compound that contains silica combined with elastomers that give the PS4S to superior performance in wet conditions.

Tests performed by TÜV SÜD in June and July 2016 show the PS4S having a shorter stopping distance than five of the obvious premium competitors on both dry and wet surfaces.

 

 

Wear Performance

Tyre longevity was evaluated by DEKRA Test Center, using 255/35-19 96Y XL PS4S tires. These tyres were the only one to last longer than 50,000 kilometers (31,068 miles).  The PS4S reportedly achieved a mileage of 52,032 kilometres (32,331 miles), a distance exceeding that of its nearest rival, the Pirelli PZero Nero GT, by 2,602 kilometers (1,616 miles).



On-track Performance

The TÜV SÜD testers also found that the PS4S delivered the best lap time on a 2.6 km (1.6 mile) circuit, completing the course 0.40 seconds faster than the nearest competitor and 1.39 seconds quicker than the slowest.

On-road Performance

 

According to Michelin, the Pilot Sport 4 S also "passes a new milestone in terms of reducing road noise, while providing good levels of driving comfort." Other bells and whistles include a velvet-like sidewall relief, like that seen on the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres, as well as a wheel protecting design.

 

An interesting video about the new tyre hosted by the guys at Engineering Explained is well worth a watch...

 

 

View the full article

[PorscheGT4]

well I have mine, but not getting fitted till Tuesday.

 

£880 a set but if they last 30k miles that's triple what my F1 rears lasted ;-)  so makes them very cheap tyres. (I don't expect 30k miles btw)

[Porker]

3 hours ago, PorscheGT4 said:

well I have mine, but not getting fitted till Tuesday.

 

£880 a set but if they last 30k miles that's triple what my F1 rears lasted ;-)  so makes them very cheap tyres. (I don't expect 30k miles btw)

Where from and does that include fitting? Good price if so

[PorscheGT4]

I need to pay for fitting, my OPC is going it along with MOT and GEO.

[PorscheGT4]

ok sit down every one, my OPC charged me £126 to fit the tyres !!!

 

I think I should be 1st in line for a 991.2 GT3 now paying those prices lol

[Highland Fling]

That's a ridiculous price for tyre fitting by your OPC. 

 

I'll be very interested in your impressions of the PPS 4S. As I've indicated elsewhere, my 982 CS has the wider 20" Carrera Sport alloys which are 8.5" wide front, and 10.5" wide rear.

 

The P Zeros are the standard N2 sizes, 235 x 35ZR x 20 front, and 265 x 35ZR x 20 rear. The rears look very stretched on the 10.5" rims, so much so that the rim protector ridge is ineffective.

 

My thinking is to change to MPS 4S 245 x 35ZR x 20 fronts and 285 x 35ZR x 20 rears. I have a selection of wheel spacers which I may need to experiment with to ensure clearance of suspension struts etc. 

 

It may well be that the when the new 982 Cayman GTS comes along it will have the larger section MPS 4S tyres fitted as standard, which of course would be N rated.

 

If that were to happen, I would swap the tyres for the larger Michelins right away. I really think Porsche have made an error of judgement in fitting the standard section tyres to this wider wheel option.

 

Brian     

[Porker]

1 hour ago, PorscheGT4 said:

ok sit down every one, my OPC charged me £126 to fit the tyres !!!

 

I think I should be 1st in line for a 991.2 GT3 now paying those prices lol

Holy crap! Presumably you had to due to warranty? I guess the average (perfectly fine) tyre fitter is on a lower labour rate than an OPC technician but still!

[Highland Fling]

Re the above post.

 

Photo of the 265 section rear tyre on the 10.5" rims.

 

Brian 

[PorscheGT4]

41 minutes ago, Porker said:

Holy crap! Presumably you had to due to warranty? I guess the average (perfectly fine) tyre fitter is on a lower labour rate than an OPC technician but still!

I don't take out warranty and my tyres are not N spec, I got a discount on fitting it should have been £176 !

when people say buy a Porsche over a Ferrari and Macca due to service and running costs, I am not so sure any more, NEW OPC labour rates are £176 a hour now !

 

I was expecting say £80 to fit tyres but £126 must be a record !  My local tyre fitter is £60 a set fitted.

[PorscheGT4]

the PS4S is much wider tyre, the R wheels are also the wider stye but the PS4S is a great fit and has good rim protection.

looking forward to more rubber on the road front and rear.

 

must be 20mm wider than that p zero pic above.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by PorscheGT4

[DJMC]

3 hours ago, Highland Fling said:

That's a ridiculous price for tyre fitting by your OPC. 

 

I'll be very interested in your impressions of the PPS 4S. As I've indicated elsewhere, my 982 CS has the wider 20" Carrera Sport alloys which are 8.5" wide front, and 10.5" wide rear.

 

The P Zeros are the standard N2 sizes, 235 x 35ZR x 20 front, and 265 x 35ZR x 20 rear. The rears look very stretched on the 10.5" rims, so much so that the rim protector ridge is ineffective.

 

My thinking is to change to MPS 4S 245 x 35ZR x 20 fronts and 285 x 35ZR x 20 rears. I have a selection of wheel spacers which I may need to experiment with to ensure clearance of suspension struts etc. 

 

It may well be that the when the new 982 Cayman GTS comes along it will have the larger section MPS 4S tyres fitted as standard, which of course would be N rated.

 

If that were to happen, I would swap the tyres for the larger Michelins right away. I really think Porsche have made an error of judgement in fitting the standard section tyres to this wider wheel option.

 

Brian     

 

Brian, remember that non-N marked tyres may have a different actual width to N marked. So far I can't even find both the 235 and 265 PS4S 20" with N markings from a tyre retailer, although they're supposed to be out now.

 

A few years ago I spoke to David Mullin at Goodyear (Technical Customer Support & Service, Goodyear Dunlop Tyres UK Ltd, 08453 453453 option 3)

He told me all tyres are made in accordance with the ETRTO rules: http://www.etrto.org/page.asp?id=1690&langue=EN
Their rules on sizing mean a generic non-N 285 35 20 tyre is allowed to be up to around 300mm wide, and is also the reason he receives dozens of calls from car owners about wheel arch rubbing on some models, as owners have bought generic tyres and not manufacturer marked ones.

Manufacturer marked tyres are built to the car manufacturer's own spec to meet their performance, noise, and comfort criteria and also so as to fit within the wheel arches! So a 265 wide N marked tyre can be up to 4% narrower to accommodate this AND still be within the ETRTO rules. With manufacturer marked tyres he doesn't get calls about wheel arch rubbing. An N marked 265 tyre may actually be 255mm wide and then the owner tries to fit a generic 265 tyre which might actually be 280mm wide! Might not work.

I'm sure those in the know at Michelin would say the same about non-N marked tyres.

 

You might also find this useful: http://www.willtheyfit.com

 

And... be sure to check with your insurers before altering anything away from Porsche spec.

[PorscheGT4]

Insurance don't care about N spec and never will, they have no idea what you are talking about if you ever try and bring "N spec " up.

 

on a side note fitting 245 x 35ZR x 20 fronts and 285 x 35ZR x 20 rears.  on a Cayman would not be good,  adding a lot of weight and not needed in any way shape or form the car would feel over tyred.

 

you would be shocked how much better a a Michelin tyre is over the P zero N spec crap Porsche fit.

 

you can chat to as many "Michelin or Good year reps "  the FACT is NO tyre is tested on any older car and a N spec mean one might be fitting a tyre from a 968  to a 993 or a 981  lol It's a joke N spec and the people you talk to tell pork pies and have to say what they are told.

 

also when 3 manafacutres all offer the same N spec tyre  and all 3 perform way different, spec sheets are again bollocks to make people fit £1.4k N spec tyres at their OPC to their cars, it's all about money, nothing else.

 

how one can say a front tyre is tested on a Carera GT  and that very same N spec is listed for a rear Cayman has to sit up and think the whole lot is bollocks.

 

you think Michelin had any N spec tyres last week end for the launch on Porsches etc with Mark webber lol,  they were all normal off the shelf tyres.

 

Michelin don't even make a N spec normal tyre for the 987 or 981 any way (bar a 15 year old PS2), and if they brand the new PS4s with N spec it will have never been tested on a 987 or a 981 either,  only a 982 car.

 

And as I only buy Michelin, I'll  take that tyre over any N spec branded tyre from another manufacture every time.

Edited February 1, 2017 by PorscheGT4

[DJMC]

By "Porsche spec" I was referring to Brian's idea of changing the width away from what Porsche recommend. I had to jump through hoops with my insurer to go just 10mm narrower for winters on the rear.

 

Whatever the views on N marked versus generic, I can sensibly only fit N marked whilst under warranty and Michelin advise me that 235 35 20 and 265 35 20 will be available in PS4S with an N mark. So I'll wait for them to appear.

 

My view is that the 982 is so similar to my 981 that the PS4S developed for the newer model will also suit mine, so long as it's N marked naturally. Otherwise it may not have been developed during the Porsche homologation process with extensive modifications made so it's a different looking and feeling tyre to the generic aftermarket Pilot Sport 4S tyre.

 

Having spoken to "reps" from Goodyear and Michelin about AO and N marked tyres for TTS and 981 I don't believe they are telling me porkies, and that these do differ from generic tyres. If you believe differently, that's entirely your choice as mine is mine. 

[Beanoir™]

Agree with David (the younger one )

 

If I stuck with N spec tyres I'd be forced to use Michelin tyres that were made using 12 year old technology, so surely buying the lastest tyres is far better for performance and safety than sticking with old N spec tyres...? 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2017 by Beanoir

[Porker]

Well that escalated quickly 

[PorscheGT4]

"I can sensibly only fit N marked whilst under warranty."

 

 

And how has that worked out for you, lol cracked hard P zero fit for the bin after 12 months !!!

Porsche will punt out a car with hard P zero ditch finders which are cracked to high heaven and are hard as nails.

 

They really are ditch finders, and I would not be seen with those on my car.

 

google hard cracked P zero's,   the internet is awash with them, and I had them on the R for 300 miles and just dumped them, a shocking tyre which will kill you.

 

 

 

 

[mr pg]

17 minutes ago, PorscheGT4 said:

"I can sensibly only fit N marked whilst under warranty."

 

 

"And how has that worked out for you, lol cracked hard P zero fit for the bin after 12 months !!!

Porsche will punt out a car with hard P zero ditch finders which are cracked to high heaven and are hard as nails.

 

They really are ditch finders, and I would not be seen with those on my car.

 

google hard cracked P zero's,   the internet is awash with them, and I had them on the R for 300 miles and just dumped them, a shocking tyre which will kill you."

I'll likely change my Pirellis (they were new when I bought my 981 CS) when required for something better, but I've survived one Welsh, and two euro trips without dying just yet!

 

 

 

 

[DJMC]

1 hour ago, PorscheGT4 said:

"I can sensibly only fit N marked whilst under warranty."

 

And how has that worked out for you, lol cracked hard P zero fit for the bin after 12 months !!!

Porsche will punt out a car with hard P zero ditch finders which are cracked to high heaven and are hard as nails.

 

They really are ditch finders, and I would not be seen with those on my car.

 

google hard cracked P zero's,   the internet is awash with them, and I had them on the R for 300 miles and just dumped them, a shocking tyre which will kill you.

 

Where did I mention Pirellis or "old" Michelins? 

 

The day I purchased my car (Nov '15), and before I paid for it, I took it to Porsche HQ Reading and asked their tyre technician to look at the edge cracking to the P Zeros. He said they were fine, but I never liked them and as you may know the half worn fronts were returned to Pirelli for a full refund (well, they paid for my already fitted new GY F1 A2s actually) after 3 months at the point the rears had coincidentally worn out (18k from new). Having said that, they performed better than I'd expected at the PEC warm up 6 weeks after I bought the car.

 

I'd liked the Goodyears on my TTS and they looked to be the best N marked option. But before I bought them I spoke to Michelin who advised me against buying non-N marked MPSS, for warranty reasons, and with the N marked PS4 being just around the corner (this was Feb 2016) and so I took their advice and put the Goodyears on in the interim. Long interim eh?

 

I have never had Michelin tyres in 40 years of driving. Nick, in my position you'd have had the same choice, instead of being "forced" onto old N marked Michelins, of new N marked Goodyears, or non N marked MPSS and no warranty. You'd have chosen MPSS perhaps, having had them before, but my choice was to go with the excellent GY F1 A2s, having had them before, but PLUS my warranty. This choice outweighed the arguably better MPSS and invalidated Porsche warranty. To me it was the better poker hand. 

 

I'm quite happy my Goodyears have another 20k-ish miles on them by which time the N marked PS4S will have been out a while, well tested, and cheaper. I can see how Michelin fan-boys would have chosen the other route, but there is no right or wrong here. Only preference, personal experience, and opinion.

[PorscheGT4]

I thought I was happy with my Goodyears but again they spin up in 2nd gear in this weather, my new PS4S let me get the traction down already.

 

you were lucky with your "Pirelli" as my friend has just got a 981 and the front tyres have gone off , hard and cracked, OPC don't want to know.

it's only done 8k miles. I drove it and it's a understeering mess, he loves it mind you as people know no different !

 

I have been enjoying my Goodyears though as you can power slide the car every where, but after a bit one wants a bit more traction.

they also gave quite a frim ride and in the cold the rubber goes too hard and traction is right down.

 

personal experience is key as you say, I have ran every thing N spec and every top branded tyre.

 

you have never ran a "Michelin" so you have yet to see just how good the  best tyres are yet :-p

 

please don't quote NO warranty if using non N tyres  in your posts as that's just not true and just scares people.

 

your car has warranty for 3 years, Porsche will NOT void your warranty if you fit a non N branded tyre in that time.

after 3 years you do have to pass a 111 check which yes they check tyres and some OPC will not renew but some will.

But a warranty is not void unless they can prove the tyre cause your electric seat to fail !

 

How do you think 997 owners get on who cannot use any N branded new tyre but Porsche now warranty for 10 year old cars ?

 

 

[DJMC]

I dealt with Pirelli direct after finding the OPC route would be more "complex".

 

Their contact was Sam Taylor ( samantha.taylor@pirelli.com ) who appointed their tyre engineer to come out and inspect the displaced tyres I'd kept so your friend can follow the same process if he likes? She was ultra efficient and communicative and handled the whole process 100% well.

Engineer agreed the compound had failed. Your friend can keep the tyres on the car for their inspection. They'll want photos emailed to start with.

 

Date codes were 4713 & 4913 and here's the photos I emailed to Sam to start the ball rolling...

 

 

I'm with you on the warranty thing regarding tyres not being responsible for electrics failing, but I guess the reason both Michelin and my OPC warn against non N marked tyres is that there are things which could be attributable to tyres. Bearings? Transmission? Engine? I don't really know, and it would be hard for them to prove, but do they need to if they simply refuse a claim due to "Ah... you've used the wrong tyres you see."

 

It may well all be nonsense and OPCs may have a hidden agenda on tyres but then so much in the OPC world appears to be nonsense.