Cost Of Ownership

[Made In Machines]

I've been wanting a Cayman for the last few years and the 981 is my model of choice.

 

However, what is holding me back is the fear that I can't afford one so I've been thinking of getting an MX5 ND instead. I have a very modest income but have saved up with to get one without finance - perhaps used 2013 or 2014 with 10,000-20000 miles on the clock. I'm actually thinking that it would be much not economical to buy a Cayman than a new ND since Caymans seem to depreciate very slowly in comparison. Then again I could get an ND for £13,000 with 10k miles. 

 

I guess I'm seeking reassurance that it's not as bad as I'm imagining although I think most people seem to run very low milages on them for a good reason it sell them after a year or two. When I hear of engines costing £10,000 and clutches for a few grand it makes me think it's a very bad idea unless you're a big earner than can afford to take these big hits. 

 

Please could you offer any tips on what I need to consider and what your prices are for various repairs and parts and how often they will need replacing?

 

Things like tyres, breakpads, big service, small service, oil change, air conditioning, clutch, estimated real mpg and any other things you can think of. Whether this be at the Porsche garage or a specialist. How much is it going to cost me per year driving a 981 10,000 miles per year assuming nothing goes wrong. And same question but if something goes wrong. 

 

I don't think there are any known issues of unreliability with the 981 unless I'm mistaken so I'd have to be unlucky to run into an expensive bill. 

 

Thanks,

Pete

 

[Woodhouse]

Pete, with a bit of luck, you probably would get away with nothing more than servicing and consumables for a few years if you start off with a good 10-20K miles car.  The Major service on my 981S cost the previous owner about £1200 at an OPC in 2017.  It needs a Minor this year and also air filter and auxilliary belt (iirc) so probably £750 at an OPC.  If I compare DIY costs using OEM quality parts (but not Porsche supplied) then my last Major on my previous 987S cost me about £250 in parts.  

 

A set of 4 Michelin PS4S 20" tyres was about £800 and I'd expect to get 10-15 k miles from the rears and maybe double that from the fronts.  

 

Discs, pads and wear sensors all round would range from about £350 DIY to (guessing now) £1500 at an OPC.  Clutch probably about the same.  Difficult to put a life on discs and pads and clutches but maybe 25K front pads, 50K discs, rears a bit more.  Clutch anywhere from 40 to over 100K.

 

Porsches are great, though I did prefer my 987 over my current 981. However my son owned a Mk2 MX5 Sport years ago when I owned a 986 Boxster S and the MX5 was more fun to drive most of the time!  And cost peanuts to run. Apart from the rust!

 

Aircon condensors are prone to leaking but easy DIY if you are handy.  DIY fix would be about £250, OPC probably £1200.  

 

 

[Made In Machines]

Thanks that's really helpful information. I'm not at all handy unfortunately. How much might an Indy charge for that? Interesting you say that - why do you prefer the 987? I'm a big fan of the 981 looks but it does feel like a big bulky car compared to the 987 and Madza. I feel the 987 is more comparable size wise and thus more manoeuvrable on many tight country roads that I like to drive. I felt more comfortable with it's size. I can see where he's coming - the MX5 may be more fun on the basis that it's much more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow. You can go through all the gears and rev away until your heat is content. When I drove the 981 on the country roads I couldn't get beyond 3rd gear. Always 2nd and 3rd gear. The 981 just looks and sounds so damn good though. It's a thing of beauty to me. 

Edited May 4, 2019 by Made In Machines

[Buggyjam]

Hi MIM. I found it helps take some of the surprise off if you can run an annual “float” for things or set aside a budget just for new parts for it. Getting things fixed I’ve noticed does tend to come in multiples of 500 quid (on a 987, 981 will be similar). 

 

Could you run to a 2k ideally 3k annual float? (not inc insurance and tax) for bits that break or tyres. Set aside a couple of hundred a month?

 

On a low miles 981 I bet you prob wouldn’t touch that for a year minus the odd small thing, so the year after you’ll have a nice little slush fund you’re saving on top of that’ll see you good for tyres and brakes (likely culprits to eat your float).

 

My 987 cost me £600 in first 6 months for new top mounts and £500 for rear discs and pads (£1100 in).  A year in it needed new tyres (PS2s on mine) at £700.  Also oil change which cost a bit as chose millers oil which isn’t cheap then paid an indi to do it (£220 all in jnc filter, o ring, labour and two big bottles of oil)

 

18 months in to ownership a scary moment where I thought I was facing a big bill, it dumped all its coolant on the drive  and turned out needed new rad hoses. Sub frame had to come out. Quite a big job. Trailered to porsche cost (£950).

 

Coming up...... Big service. Oil change  again. Get exhaust flange bolts replaced. Possibly Clutch,

 

So I’ve had to put my hand in my pocket a couple of times on a 987, you prob will be a lot luckier on a low miles 981 as a lot of those things are use and time related.

 

But with those parts 2-3k annual would still have easily covered it.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by Buggyjam

[Woodhouse]

Pete, have a look at Revolution Porsche's website for an idea of indy costs.  Never used them but they are well regarded on boxa.net.

 

I preferred the manual box in my old 987 to the PDK in my 981.  It's difficult to find a 981 manual in the spec I wanted as most are PDKs.  The hydraulic steering in the 987 is much better for feel than the 1st generation electric rack in the 981.  The brakes are over servo'd,  I don't like the contrived pops and crackles of the 981 sports exhaust, the electric handbrake, or the looks compared with the 987.

 

There are a couple of things I prefer, such as the PASM which is significantly better than the 1st gen implementation in my gen1 987.  The tech is clearly better and it's a bit more economical (probably about 26mpg real world long term average vs about 22 on my 987).

 

Although there's a bit more room in the cabin, It doesn't feel like there's much difference in external size when driving.

 

The MX5 feels much lighter and more chuckable.  The steering was quicker and there's a lot less grip so much easier to get the car moving around at sensible speeds.  The Porsches are too heavy and have too much grip in comparison and you've got to be going pretty bonkers to exceed its limits.  Having said that, the Porsche would be my choice for a Euro road trip (more boot space for a start!).

 

Some people have put smaller wheels and tyres on the cars and although I've not tried it, I'm sure it would make them more playful and fun to drive.

[Made In Machines]

Wow some great posts guys. Thanks very much for your time and effort. 

[Made In Machines]

@Buggyjam What mileage is your 987? £2-3k a year seems a lot when insurance is going to cost £500 extra and the extra petrol used probably £1000 more. I guess It's going to cost me an 4-5k a year then extra over something like a 2.0L MX5 ND? Does that figure sound realistic? If so after 4 years I could have got an MX5 for free with what I spent on the Porsche so i'd much rather just buy the MX5.

 

What worries me most are things like the clutch which I believe can cost £4k or electronic problems (no idea of the cost of those) or engines (maybe 10k?) or roof problems.

 

@Woodhouse Those are very low MPG figures - I was expecting 30s - Only 22mpg? Is that a 987 Cayman S? Perhaps it's the cabin that made me thing it was bigger and wider than the 987 then? Yes I wasn't in love with any of the electronic steering systems i've tried - seems too easy and light like it's not real. Wht do you think about the gearing on either model - I didn't really find I could get our of 2 or 3 on country roads. I'm not sure what over servo'd means - I'm not that knowledgeable about the technical things on cars. I'm not a great fan of electronic handbreaks either. 

[mr pg]

A 981 isn't going to cost anywhere near £4-5kpa. Servicing is every 2 years. Check the RPM Technic website for indy costs (clutch £880, front pads £204).Tyres (on 20's) will be £700-800. How long they last is down to you. You may be able to find a car with an extended warranty which would ease your mind and potentially wallet.

The brakes are a bit over servoed (ie too sensitive) compared to earlier Porsches.

Gearing on pdk's is a bit shorter, and recommend PASM, as ride is excellent. You can 30+mpg when mway cruising, mid 20's  or a bit lower when pressing on. Engines/electronics aren't known for problems. I think you're well overestimating potential problems/costs

I went for a 981 as much prefer the looks, and cabin. 4 years in, and back to europe for a fifth summer trip in July. 

[Made In Machines]

Hopefully I am! Doesn't sound too bad at all. What is a standard mileage for front/rear tyres to last and break pads/discs? I'm not sure how much the prices would be  including labour and VAT.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Made In Machines

[mr pg]

https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/servicing/fixed-price/porsche-981-3-4-s/

I replaced my front discs/pads at over 20k miles but only because the pads didn't appear to be getting full contact with the discs. The rears are the same as when I bought the car and now 6 years/30k miles with plenty left on them. I don't like quoting tyre useage as there are too many variables like brand, geometry condition, driving style, age, etc.

[Woodhouse]

My 981S PDK does about 26 MPG as a long term average (1 year, 3500 miles).  My usage is almost entirely as a weekend fun car going to car meets or just for a drive.  Got my first mini Euro trip coming up fairly soon so will see what MPG I get.

5

My 987 was about 22 MPG over more than 6 years and 30K miles.  I think the 981 improvement is due to a combination of PDK (it does have some advantages!) and the DFI newer engine design.

 

As to why I preferred my 987, I'd sum it up by saying that it is more "analogue" and raw.  The 981 is too sanitised and insulated for a pure fun car.  Probably great as an everyday car but a backward step for me.  

 

To illustrate the point, the wife and I took our Son's Caterham 420R out yesterday.  No ABS, traction control, PASM, electronic driver aids of any sort.  It's a very quick car that will leave my Cayman standing and really demands your attention all the time.  But strangely, it's still fun even when you are stuck behind traffic down a country lane.  Its a complete PITA getting in and out, has a really crap turning circle, virtually no ground clearance, requires earplugs and even then makes loads of noises.  But it's a hoot to drive, when driving it for the sake of driving rather than as a means of transport.  Whilst the 987 is much closer to the 981 than it is to the Caterham, it is more engaging as a driving machine.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Woodhouse
Update

[Buggyjam]

19 hours ago, Made In Machines said:

@Buggyjam What mileage is your 987? £2-3k a year seems a lot when insurance is going to cost £500 extra and the extra petrol used probably £1000 more. I guess It's going to cost me an 4-5k a year then extra over something like a 2.0L MX5 ND? Does that figure sound realistic? If so after 4 years I could have got an MX5 for free with what I spent on the Porsche so i'd much rather just buy the MX5.

 

What worries me most are things like the clutch which I believe can cost £4k or electronic problems (no idea of the cost of those) or engines (maybe 10k?) or roof problems.

 

@Woodhouse Those are very low MPG figures - I was expecting 30s - Only 22mpg? Is that a 987 Cayman S? Perhaps it's the cabin that made me thing it was bigger and wider than the 987 then? Yes I wasn't in love with any of the electronic steering systems i've tried - seems too easy and light like it's not real. Wht do you think about the gearing on either model - I didn't really find I could get our of 2 or 3 on country roads. I'm not sure what over servo'd means - I'm not that knowledgeable about the technical things on cars. I'm not a great fan of electronic handbreaks either. 

 

Hi MIM. 4-5k a year extra on top of mx5 money  is way excessive! Well, you’d have a good slush fund if you did ha.

 

Points of clarity for my figures..(they were for a 987 gen 2)

 

In my 2-3k annual costs it wasn’t a guess , more empirically derived as it’s what my 987 has cost me per year over 2 years in bits that need replacing and ALL other mechanical things. That includes consumables like services, tyres, brakes plus the that parts that needed, Er “refreshing” (I think is the modern trendy parlance for fixing :D) .

 

Even then 3k is a bit strong it’s prob cost me average more like 2.0-2.2k in those bits, but I added a bit more as can see this year I’ve got some more expensive things like a clutch as well as a major service on the horizon.

 

Important  to bare in mind! A 987 is about 10 years old and as I mentioned in the post above a lot of parts are either affected by miles and use or time. A classic case with time is the front rad hoses on the 987 which corrode. I do about 10k a year in mine and don’t drive it like a Citroen C3. So I get through a set of rears a year and a set of fronts every 18 months ish. 

 

You’re looking at young 981s with low miles so you’re in a significantly better starting position, I reckon you won’t have to buy much more than tyres, maybe some front brakes for the first couple of years and your services. Now of course that’s a guess and there’s always bits that break. But these are reliable modern cars. 

 

The prices i mentioned dont include fuel and insurance as that’s highly subjective. I pay £480 for my insurance with NFU mutual and that’s for 10k miles an annum. I don’t worry about fuel as you’re on a hiding to nothing if you start needle watching on Porsche’s :D. They’re not bad to be fair. I’ve just driven my 987 from Lincs to Cairnryan in Scotland then ferry to Bangor and it cost £60 in fuel. 

 

I reckon if you plan on fuel and insurance being “a bit more” then give yourself a 1.5 2k annual budget for things like servicing and tyres you’ll be fine to cover that..

 

What no one can tell you or gloss over of course is if, like any car, you get a surprise fault that needs sorting, then naturally that budget will fall way short. These cars “can” generate big bills compared to say an MX5, and non are of course immune from the odd curve ball like any car. But I’d say you’re well placed with a low miles, young 981. They’re not temperamental Ferrari’s.

 

I’d say, look at your mx5 ownership and consider what you’ve needed over a course. Brakes, tyres etc. A Porsche won’t be much different, perhaps better with low miles it’s just those things cost a bit more to replace. 

 

Some bits are bizzarrly cheap. I did a sterling effort in Ireland and mashed the two plastic front splitters pieces on some rising ground ha. 65 quid for a pair of new ones from Porsche (cheaper than 3rd party weirdly). Bit of paint, and good to go :D. 

 

So take away, if you buy yourself a nice low miles 981. Get it checked and look to see the brakes and tyres all have life. Cough up for your insurance and tax then bung 100 odd quid a month into a pot for a rainy day (that service tyres, mot etc) then you’ll be alright for a few years. Of course if you keep it for longer term you’re gonna start coming across bits that need doing but you prob would have save a little bit for those.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Buggyjam

[Woodhouse]

I just added up the maintenance costs on my 987S, which I owned for about six and a half years and about 30K miles.  The total came to about £4750, which was almost all on a DIY basis so 90+% of that cost is parts. The car was well maintained but I could have spent more.  Most of the parts were OEM quality but not Porsche branded.

 

This excludes tax, MOT, insurance and non-maintenance items (e.g. Carnewall exhaust).

[Porsched eggs]

On a 987 the trade off is that the depreciation has slowed down a lot so you are spending more on maintenance but hopefully will see more back when you sell.

 

Im guessing a 981 is still in its first stage depreciation though.

 

My Mk7 Golf GTI was losing £300-400 a month in depreciation plus the costs for tyres and servicing etc.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Porsched eggs

[GlosRich]

Hi MIM,

 

I'd advise finding your local Porsche specialist and seeing what they charge for servicing. Its every 2 years, but consumables like tyres and brakes could be more if you drive it hard.

 

Also consider the Abarth 124 Spider, there are some seriously good pre-reg deals on those, I've seen them for £19k and below, essentially the same car as the MX5, but with more Italian character. I seriously considered one before getting my Cayman. Bonus being you'll have 3 years warranty, and will  probably only need one service in 3 years, so very manageable costs, if you are on a tight budget.

 

As much as I love my Cayman, its 10 years old and needs a few fiddly jobs doing, I reckon I've spent £700 already, getting things up to my standard. However a major service was only £320, and nothing extra serious was found.

 

As always drive them all. Its fine discussing it, but you need to see what they are like to drive.

 

Rich

 

 

 

 

[Craiglm68]

Hi MIM, trust you're enjoying the forum and the always helpful input from members as above. I was reading away, and I must be honest, I thought to myself "If an MX-5 ticks your box, would a 987 Boxster  be a suitable compromise (and still a lot of fun)"?  As mentioned above, the proof is in the pudding, so go out and test drive a heap of different cars.

[Buggyjam]

6 hours ago, GlosRich said:

Hi MIM,

 

I'd advise finding your local Porsche specialist and seeing what they charge for servicing. Its every 2 years, but consumables like tyres and brakes could be more if you drive it hard.

 

Also consider the Abarth 124 Spider, there are some seriously good pre-reg deals on those, I've seen them for £19k and below, essentially the same car as the MX5, but with more Italian character. I seriously considered one before getting my Cayman. Bonus being you'll have 3 years warranty, and will  probably only need one service in 3 years, so very manageable costs, if you are on a tight budget.

 

As much as I love my Cayman, its 10 years old and needs a few fiddly jobs doing, I reckon I've spent £700 already, getting things up to my standard. However a major service was only £320, and nothing extra serious was found.

 

As always drive them all. Its fine discussing it, but you need to see what they are like to drive.

 

Rich

 

 

 

 

You legend, you’ve solved a mystery that has been annoying me ha ha. I saw a car the other week and thought “wow what’s that”. I’ve been googling like mad. And yes, it’s the Abarth 124. It looked gorgeous. I love the retro black bonnet and 70s looks.

[GlosRich]

19 hours ago, Buggyjam said:

You legend, you’ve solved a mystery that has been annoying me ha ha. I saw a car the other week and thought “wow what’s that”. I’ve been googling like mad. And yes, it’s the Abarth 124. It looked gorgeous. I love the retro black bonnet and 70s looks.

 

Thanks. I thought I'd get flamed for mentioning it, as its not a Porsche!

 

For the money its a bargain, especially the pre-reg ones. Not as fast as a Porsche, but you can drive it harder more of the time, if you see what I mean.

 

Its a joint venture between Mazda and Fiat. The Fiat has their 1.4 Turbo in various outputs. 

[Hutch259]

I’ve also a new Cayman owner , and also looked at the Abarth 124 spider, much nicer and standout than the Fiat badged one, which has now been withdrawn from their new cars  list.

the Abarth engine sounded great, but as I’ve always wanted a Porsche and the spider didn’t quite scratch the itch that would have still been there had I bought the Abarth, and same as Rich mentioned you have to balance out having an older

Porsche or a new car , which isn’t a Porsche depending on your budget restrictions . I have to say I still love looking at my car on the drive or in reflections as I drive by, something I don’t think I would have got from buying  something else. Plus also the Cayman group seem to be a great bunch for advice  and help should you need it. 

Cheers Paul 

[Made In Machines]

Hi yes i'm enjoying the forum. Lots of very helpful posts and insights. I have test driven a lot of cars in my search - the test drive is very much dependent on the salesman that comes with me though. I have tried all sorts over the last few years, TT (Auto), 370z, MX-5, MX-5 RF, BMW 4 series, E46 M3, Porsche 987 Cayman 3.4L Tiptronic, 981 Cayman and Boxster. Top 3 were MX-5, 981 and 370z.

 

Every MX-5 test drive has been awesome. Love it. I just wished it looked a bit chunkier and more manly - like a serious machine. Country roads or dual carriageway - it was great. I like the convertible experience and having the hard top - best of both worlds. Feels faster than it is. Bit cramped on the headroom though. 

 

The Cayman 981 was very fun with an awesome noise - it felt like a race car. I couldn't really get to use the gears much though - 2nd or 3rd is the most I could really manage on country roads if I wanted to rev. The gearing does feel long. Perhaps it's too powerful for the road? It did feel bigger than the 987. It's been a long time since I tried a 981 though. I like a car I can push rather than a car I can't really ever get anywhere near finding out what it can do without a track. I'm not sure if that's the case or not. Perhaps?

 

The 987 test drive was terrible as he wouldn't let me do over 50mph. Also I don't like auto. It did feel a nice manageable size.

 

TT was an extremely short test drive on a dual carriage way - It was quick but didn't feel quick. Not much fun. Felt business like rather than fun. 

 

BWM 4 Series felt too business like - quiet and refined = Boring

 

E46 M3 Much quicker but felt similar to drive. 

 

My very short and boring test drive in the 981 Boxster made me feel like there was no difference between the Boxster and Cayman as it was such a refined experience I couldn't feel the wind on my head anyway. Perhaps raising the seat up higher might help? If you don't really get the thrill of a convertible might as well get the Cayman. 

 

The 370z was very raw and an absolute riot - very big though and heavy though and the mpg is too low. 

 

I therefore came to the conclusion it's either the MX5 RF or the Porsche 981 Cayman unless the Boxster can prove me wrong and offer a bit more in terms of open top thrills. For me the 981 is a thing of beauty though and an absolute machine.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Made In Machines