987.1 - S or not?

[Scottland]

Hi, newbie here on lookout for my first Porsche.

 

Having read around loads over the past few weeks, I feel I know where I stand with any potential bore scoring issues with the 3.4 - so I don't want to turn this thread in a debate on what the issue is etc - it's more about the nagging feeling in the back of my mind that a 3.4 I bought could have issues. So - what I'm torn on is whether I'd feel like I 'missed out' by getting a 2.7, or would the worry in the back of my mind about the 3.4 would make me feel like I should have opted for the 2.7?

 

I'd usually opt to get the 'top' model wherever I can, so I don't get that feeling like I'm missing out - but in this case my head is telling me the 2.7 is a better fit for me...

Engine power aside, is there much driving differences with the 2.7 (brakes/suspension)? 

 

 

I know ultimately it's my decision, but would just like to gauge other peoples thoughts on this.

 

 

Thanks

[sevenfourate]

Welcome !

 

I had the same "dilemma" 10 or 11 months ago regarding 987's. While still deciding the pro's and cons in my head - the right 2.7 with great history, low miles and 1 owner appeared for sale near me: and that was that.

 

Previous to that i'd test driven 2 x 3.4 S's. Through the gears theres not silly amounts in it. The extra torque in the 3.4 is what's more noticeable imo.

 

For me - it was never about speed. It was about sensations, the handling - and let's be honest; The Brand. I don't feel i've lost out on anything that i wanted. And am still glad i did what i did. Would i do the same again if the clocks were turned back ? More than likely.

 

*And interestingly although i think official figures record something like 5-7% of 3.4's suffering from Bore-score / IMS at some point - a conversation with my local independant who's sold upwards of 300 x 987's over the years  - says that in his experience it's more like 20%. Take that as you see fit; but he had no reason to inflate figures to me. He also said he's never had a single 2.7 pass through his hands suffer from either issue....

 

Bottom line is: if going for a 3.4 have an independent inspection done by a Porsche specialist, and pay serious attention to the potential bore score / IMS issues. Its all you can do. And the route i'd have gone if the right 3.4 had of appeared reasonably near to me when i was looking to purchase.

 

Good luck.

[Mavrik]

I would test drive both to really know!

 

I also own a 350z GT HR Convertible & I had a similar dilemma... I test drove the lesser powered 276bhp version & the newer 313bhp version... No brainer for me as there was a noticeable difference in torque & seat of the pants feeling & I knew I would miss the extra grunt! ... The price difference was 2.5k...

 

Guess you have to decide if potential engine issues with the S is a big enough worry

 

Bought my CS just over 2yrs ago with 61k & now on 66k... No issues for me so far but I know I would of always thought I'd have missed the extra grunt with a 2.7 Base

Edited May 23, 2020 by Mavrik

[Scottland]

Thanks for the replies both. 

 

@sevenfourate - what if any handling differences did you see between the 2? I guess I could always change the suspension anyway. 

As regards to the likelihood of an issue - to be honest it's more the worry about any potential issue that's my big concern. Am I going to be reluctant to drive it incase I have an issue? 

 

@Mavrik - curious you have a 350z too, as I started looking at those.

[sevenfourate]

Just now, Scottland said:

Thanks for the replies both. 

 

@sevenfourate - what if any handling differences did you see between the 2? I guess I could always change the suspension anyway. 

As regards to the likelihood of an issue - to be honest it's more the worry about any potential issue that's my big concern. Am I going to be reluctant to drive it incase I have an issue? 

 

@Mavrik - curious you have a 350z too, as I started looking at those.

 

I've not hugely pushed mine. And certainly not stretched the 3.4S of my friends - or the one for sale i drove. Again - all i can say is mine is enough for odd sunny Sunday drive i use it for. And leagues ahead in terms of feeling, feedback and sensations to many even supposed 'sports; cars. Depends where you're coming from i guess. **To be fair i'm not even sure what any suspension differences are between both. I know the 3.4 has different (Larger) Brembo brake calipers up-front......

[Scottland]

2 minutes ago, sevenfourate said:

 

**To be fair i'm not even sure what any suspension differences are between both. I know the 3.4 has different (Larger) Brembo brake calipers up-front......

 

Yeah I'm not sure specifically - but I've seen a few articles state the nonS is a bit softer. Like I said I guess it's easy enough to upgrade it anyway seeing as lots of cars might need a refresh anyway at their age. 

[sevenfourate]

1 minute ago, Scottland said:

 

Yeah I'm not sure specifically - but I've seen a few articles state the nonS is a bit softer. Like I said I guess it's easy enough to upgrade it anyway seeing as lots of cars might need a refresh anyway at their age. 

 

I can see how pushed hard mine could be considered slightly soft 'perhaps' (?). But as a road only car i haven't felt i'm out in an old wallowing boat yet ! Plenty firm enough for my type of spirited driving. And you soon know how firm it is on the right pot-hole......of which we have plenty 😎

[Mavrik]

1 hour ago, Scottland said:

Thanks for the replies both. 

 

@Mavrik - curious you have a 350z too, as I started looking at those.

----------------------------------------------------------

 

I bought the Zed the year before the Cayman S.

 

There was a Fifth Gear episode where Tiff Needel & Vicki BH raved about the Zed & also another where they pitted the Zed against a Cayman!

 

The Cayman is much more refined & easier to control on the edge compared to the Zed which is just more a brute... I've tracked both several times but tbh they are pretty evenly matched 

 

However... you get more of a "smug" feeling driving a Porsche vs a Nissan 

 

Defo test both a 2.7 & 3.4S to help you decide... Or save some pennies for a 987.2 

 

I ride Sportbikes too & the difference between a 600 & litre bike is immense 😉

 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Mavrik

[Lennym1984]

The suspension differences between a 2.7 and 3.4 are negligible. The anti roll bars are the same and the front springs are the same but the rear springs on the s are stiffer to account for the extra weight. The only differences are the engines and the brakes. 

 

Don't get hung up on the brakes either, they won't stop you any quicker and the 2.7 brakes (with decent fluid) will be fine for 99% of all street and track driving. 

 

Basically size up the risk vs reward of the engine and see what you are comfortable with 

[FLAT STICK]

YES!!!!!!

[peteslag]

If it is 2.7 vs 3.4, my 3.4S feels a little under powered at times. If I ever get bored of the Cayman this will be the reason I move onto something else.

 

As for Cayman vs other cars, most other cars feel like a bit of a blunt instrument compared to the Cayman. My VX220 was lighter on it's feet but it was awful as a daily. 

 

I had a similar quandary to you, I went for the riskier 3.4 because I knew I'd get quickly bored with the lack of power in the 2.7. If I had gone for the 2.7 I don't think I would have kept it long. The 2.7 is slower than my old z4 3.0. I sold my Z4 because it just felt too slow!

 

The 2.7 and 3.4 are both great cars, it is just a question of how much power you need to keep it interesting.

 

[Windymiller]

I have a 987.2 S, when I was buying it I tried both the 2.9 and 3.4, and went for the more powerful S because I wanted the extra power and (more so) torque as I intended to track it. 
 

When I’m out on the road the 3.4 feels more than quick enough, until I’m sat behind a 3.8 911, and then I feel very slow. 🤨🤷‍♂️
 

On track, no matter what you have, there is always someone quicker - either quicker car, or better driving. 🙄😳
 

As a counter perspective, I recently picked up a 2000 plate 986 2.7 boxster 5spd for a friend and brought it home for a week and absolutely loved it!🤩
Why?
 

Because it was so much easier and safer to ‘wring out’ the 2.7 to hear the flat-6 wail, yet still be going at reasonable speeds. And the 5spd meant you could hold onto the revs more before shifting up (longer ratios perhaps?). Whereas my 6spd 3.4 is doing 80 by 4500rpm in 3rd before I’ve even got into the ‘fun zone’ of the Rev range and exhaust noise. 

 

And it still returned 32mpg at 70mph pulling 2600rpm in 5th. 
 

Not bad for a 20 yr old 147k porker 😉👍🏻
 

Drive as many examples of both types as you can and see which is most comfortable and fun for you? 
 

Could you stretch to a gen 2 PDK 2.9?

 

Id suggest, other than a straight line ‘drag race’, its possibly as quick as a 987.1S with the rapid shifts of the PDK box... 🤔

[Scottland]

10 hours ago, Windymiller said:

I have a 987.2 S, when I was buying it I tried both the 2.9 and 3.4, and went for the more powerful S because I wanted the extra power and (more so) torque as I intended to track it. 
 

When I’m out on the road the 3.4 feels more than quick enough, until I’m sat behind a 3.8 911, and then I feel very slow. 🤨🤷‍♂️
 

On track, no matter what you have, there is always someone quicker - either quicker car, or better driving. 🙄😳
 

As a counter perspective, I recently picked up a 2000 plate 986 2.7 boxster 5spd for a friend and brought it home for a week and absolutely loved it!🤩
Why?
 

Because it was so much easier and safer to ‘wring out’ the 2.7 to hear the flat-6 wail, yet still be going at reasonable speeds. And the 5spd meant you could hold onto the revs more before shifting up (longer ratios perhaps?). Whereas my 6spd 3.4 is doing 80 by 4500rpm in 3rd before I’ve even got into the ‘fun zone’ of the Rev range and exhaust noise. 

 

And it still returned 32mpg at 70mph pulling 2600rpm in 5th. 
 

Not bad for a 20 yr old 147k porker 😉👍🏻
 

Drive as many examples of both types as you can and see which is most comfortable and fun for you? 
 

Could you stretch to a gen 2 PDK 2.9?

 

Id suggest, other than a straight line ‘drag race’, its possibly as quick as a 987.1S with the rapid shifts of the PDK box... 🤔

 

I might be able to stretch to a gen 2, bit not interested in pdk. I just don't find flappy paddles as engaging.

 

Re your points in the 2.7 - that has crossed my mind that I would rev out the 2.7 more with the 5 speed gearing than a 3.4 6speed. There's not that much about near me locally at the moment, hopefully I can get out a bit more as this lockdown situation eases over the next few weeks and I can drive some cars. 

[Scottland]

May as well update this, picked up a gen 1 S at the weekend. 1 owner with a recent rebuild from Porsche. So not immune to future issues (as a hartech rebuild would be) but gives me enough confidence that I can treat it well and it should be fine for a (long) while hopefully!

[Windymiller]

9 hours ago, Scottland said:

May as well update this, picked up a gen 1 S at the weekend. 1 owner with a recent rebuild from Porsche. So not immune to future issues (as a hartech rebuild would be) but gives me enough confidence that I can treat it well and it should be fine for a (long) while hopefully!

Way to go, and hope you enjoy your ownership. 👍🏻

[peteslag]

On 22/07/2020 at 10:26, Scottland said:

May as well update this, picked up a gen 1 S at the weekend. 1 owner with a recent rebuild from Porsche. So not immune to future issues (as a hartech rebuild would be) but gives me enough confidence that I can treat it well and it should be fine for a (long) while hopefully!

 I was starting to fall out of love with mine until a recent trip to Blyton Park. Now I absolutely love it again, it just keeps on giving.

 

Don't thrash it from cold, keep on top of the oil changes, she'll give you no bother at all. You have made a great choice.

[Ian S]

I’ve had my 987.1 S for just over 2 years with all the extras. I find the PASM when on is a little too hard on the 19” wheels and the sport button does make a little difference. I only use the car at weekends and was driving once a week to work (50 miles round trip) before C-19 kicked in.  Mine did suffer from bore wear and had a complete engine rebuild including steel liners so will not suffer again. Got the car back just before lockdown so took ages to run in. But now done and had oil and filter changed. I must say she is a different car. Much more responsive and sounds amazing. Covered over 2000 miles with a permanent smile and no oil usage!  My everyday car has hardly seen the road!

[Crim]

On 01/06/2020 at 19:08, peteslag said:

If it is 2.7 vs 3.4, my 3.4S feels a little under powered at times. If I ever get bored of the Cayman this will be the reason I move onto something else.

 

As for Cayman vs other cars, most other cars feel like a bit of a blunt instrument compared to the Cayman. My VX220 was lighter on it's feet but it was awful as a daily. 

 

I had a similar quandary to you, I went for the riskier 3.4 because I knew I'd get quickly bored with the lack of power in the 2.7. If I had gone for the 2.7 I don't think I would have kept it long. The 2.7 is slower than my old z4 3.0. I sold my Z4 because it just felt too slow!

 

The 2.7 and 3.4 are both great cars, it is just a question of how much power you need to keep it interesting.

 

I was reading these posts thinking I can get away with a 2.7 and be happy...until your post I just sold my Z4 3.0 Annoyingly to read this  i mean that with good intention as now after making peace with thinking id just op for a safer 2.7 ill probably now find myself with a 3.4 with Boer score hahah

[peteslag]

22 hours ago, Crim said:

I was reading these posts thinking I can get away with a 2.7 and be happy...until your post I just sold my Z4 3.0 Annoyingly to read this  i mean that with good intention as now after making peace with thinking id just op for a safer 2.7 ill probably now find myself with a 3.4 with Boer score hahah

 

The 2.7 is by far the better buy, on paper at least. It has decent power and a more reliable engine. My issue is that when I plant my right foot I want a bit of drama. If you go for a low mileage 987.1 you should be ok. I had mine checked at 40K and it was completely free bore score free.

 

My head said 2.7, my heart said 3.4. I think my heart got it right.