Slight leak at front radiator hose

[redorblack]

My local Porsche dealer identified a slight weep at the ns front crossover hose under the wheel arch on my 2010 987. They have quoted almost £850 to replace it. Does anybody know why this is so expensive? Is there something special needs to be done which bumps up the price? I can get the hose for around 30 quid online but maybe its not as simple a DIY job as it looks? Any advice would be welcome.

 

 

[Beanoir™]

It’s a royal PITA job that’s why.  The correct way to replace involves lowering the subframe, it can be done without doing that but that makes the job quite tricky.  
 

Is this an OPC quote or an independent specialist?  Does sound a bit pricey for a decent indie.  

[redorblack]

Thanks for that - sounds like its not a DIY job then. The quote was from Porsche Aberdeen.

[Windymiller]

For comparison, A ‘typical’ price from a good indie for all the front hoses and pipes replacing is ~£600

[redorblack]

Thanks - the problem is finding a good indie Porsche specialist in NE Scotland.

[Woodhouse]

As Nick says, it's a fiddly job.  I did mine about 3 years ago and the front hoses and aluminium crossover pipes were about £220. 

 

To do it properly you need to lower the front of the subframe for clearance which is actually very straightforward but does require a geometry alignment afterwards.  I did it at the same time as some suspension work which needed a geo anyway.

 

I produced a detailed write-up so let me know if you want to give it a go.  While it's fiddly, I'd take this any day over sorting the exhaust studs!

[redorblack]

It sounds like its a level above my DIY skills, and I probably don't have the necessary garage kit, but if you can send me your write-up, I'll see if I fancy tackling it. 

Cheers. 

[andygo]

Or better still, post your write up here!

 

I did it a few years ago without lowering the subframe on a 987.1. It was like training to be a gynaecologist!

[Woodhouse]

Ok, here it is.  Usual disclaimers apply - use at your own risk etc.  Don't forget to get the geo alignment checked afterwards.  I recommend taking the opportunity to max out front negative camber and set the toe parallel when you do this.

 

Porsche Cayman S 987 Gen 1

 

Front Aluminium Coolant Pipes and Flexible Hoses Replacement Procedure

 

1.      Jack front of car high.  Secure with axle stands.  Remove front wheels.  (19mm socket)

2.      Remove wheel arch front liners and front, centre and outer under-trays. (Torx screwdrivers/bits & 10mm socket)

3.      Optional - disconnect track rod end ball joints to allow struts to rotate for extra clearance. (18mm socket, hammer to tap ball joint taper free)

4.      Disconnect body coloured metal diagonal struts behind radiators. (10mm nuts)

5.      Remove black plastic brake cooling ducts from diagonal control arm. (Screwdriver to prise plastic clips open)

6.      Remove hose retainer clips from flexible coolant hoses where they connect to plastic fittings – one either side near steering rack, two at radiator connections both sides).  Can leave hoses attached to aluminium pipes if they won’t pull out easily.  (Pliers/screwdriver)

7.      Pull hoses out of plastic fittings and catch coolant in pan (approx 3 – 4 litres).

8.      Disconnect headlamp level sensor link rod on left side if car is fitted with Zenon headlamps. (2 x 10mm spanners)

9.      Remove diagonal cross braces from chassis and sub-frame. (18mm socket)

10.  Remove 2 x bolts that attach steering rack to sub-frame. (15mm socket)

11.  Remove bolts that attach plastic coolant pipe clamps to metal brackets bolted to sub-frame – approx 100 mm inboard from where hoses connect.  The near side one (RHD car) is particularly tricky due to other brackets/pipes nearby.  Unclip plastic pipe for headlamp washers if fitted and remove plastic clamps. (10mm socket, ¼” drive universal joint and 400-500mm of extension bars)

12.  Remove bolts x 2 securing plastic coolant pipe brackets in middle of plastic pipes to sub-frame.  Optional – also remove bolts securing front metal support brackets to sub-frame if brackets are corroded and need replacement or cleaning up and painting.  (10mm socket)

13.  Release the spring clamps securing the short rubber hoses that connect the plastic coolant pipes to the aluminium pipes.  When fully open, these clamps have a latch position to keep them open.  (Long nose pliers)

14.  Partially undo all 8 bolts securing the sub-frame to allow the sub-frame to drop approx 10mm all round.  Then completely remove all the bolts apart from the two rear most ones (one either side).  This will allow the front of the sub-frame to drop by approx 100mm.  No need to support the sub-frame.  No need to disconnect coffin arms or anti-roll bar.  (18mm socket)

15.  Pull the aluminium pipes outwards to disconnect them from the short rubber hoses connecting them to the plastic pipes.  You will need to hold the plastic pipes to stop them moving.  May need two pairs of hands at this point.

16.  Release the black plastic clip that secures the two aluminium pipes to the sub-frame – press in the plastic tabs with pliers and push up through the sub-frame.  (Pliers)

17.  Now need to wiggle the aluminium pipes out.  May be easier to push them out through the bottom. 

18.  Prise off the short rubber hoses from the plastic pipes.  (Screwdriver)

19.  Install new short rubber hoses, making sure the white line on the hose aligns with the moulded line on the plastic pipe.  Don’t release the spring clamps yet.

20.  Wiggle new aluminium pipes in – may be easier to install right side one first.  Note the blue lines on the pipes which need to line up with the white lines on the short rubber hoses.  Don’t connect the aluminium pipes to the short rubber hoses until both pipes are in.  Clip pipes into the black plastic clip.  Make sure first that the plastic pipe for headlamp washers is clipped in first. 

21.  With a helper, push the aluminium pipes into the already installed short rubber hoses.  You need to hold the plastic pipes that these are attached to when the helper is pushing the aluminium pipes in.

22.  Pull the central black plastic pipe clip back through the sub-frame until it locks in place.  (Pliers)

23.  Position the plastic clamps and bolts for the aluminium pipes (clip in the headlamp washer pipe if present).  

24.  Refit the sub-frame bolts and torque (all are 160 Nm/118 Ft/Lbs except the front ones which are 100 Nm/74 Ft/Lbs).  (18mm socket and torque wrench)

25.  Refit the two bolts securing the steering rack to sub-frame and torque to 65 Nm/48 Ft/Lbs.  (15mm socket and torque wrench).

26.  Refit the two diagonal stiffeners and torque the nuts and bolts to 100 Nm/74 Ft/Lbs.  (18mm socket and torque wrench).

27.  Refit the two front metal support brackets for the plastic pipes if removed. 

28.  Refit bolts securing mid plastic pipe clamps. 

29.  Attach the upper plastic pipe clamps to the metal support brackets – as per removal, need universal joint and long extensions. 

30.  Fit flexible hose retaining clips to plastic fittings (new aluminium pipes are supplied with clips already fitted).  Note:  The hoses connected to aluminium pipes have smaller diameter fittings on both ends and smaller clips compared to the hoses connected to the plastic fittings.  Make sure you get the clips the right way round or the hoses may subsequently pop out with coolant loss later.

31.  Lubricate O ring seals on new flexible hoses with coolant and push into sockets until clips click into place.   Check carefully that hoses are fully seated and clips are retaining hoses securely.

32.  Refit diagonal braces behind radiators.

33.  Refit headlamp levelling link rod.

34.  Refit brake cooling ducts.

35.  Release clamps on short rubber hoses connecting aluminium pipes to plastic pipes, ensuring all alignment marks are aligned.

36.  Reattach track rod ends to hubs and torque to 76 Nm/56 Ft/Lbs.

37.  Fit front wheels and lower car to ground.

38.  Remove engine cover.  (Levers  and Torx bit)

39.  In engine compartment, remove blue cap for coolant tank and lift metal clip to upright position to open vent.

40.  Pour in filtered coolant until coolant level is at max in boot sight gauge – will probably need more than the recovered coolant.  (Funnel)

41.  Refit coolant caps and start engine.  Allow to run for a minute or two then switch off , remove coolant caps and top up if necessary.  Check for leaks.

42.  Jack up rear of car as high as possible, restart car, put heater on max and allow car to warm up.  Keep checking for leaks.  When at/near 80 degrees C, the thermostat should open.  Check new flex hoses are getting warm.  Shut down engine, allow to cool a little then remove coolant caps and top up again.

43.  Restart engine.  When at 80 deg C, blip throttle to 4-5 k to stimulate coolant flow and sent air back to tank. 

44.  After a few minutes at 80 deg C, shut down engine, allow to cool a little then check coolant again.  Restart engine and run until fans kick in.  Inspect for leaks again.

45.  Refit all under-trays.

46.  Take car for drive, check coolant level when cool afterwards.  Top up as necessary to Max level.  Keep checking level over next few days.  When happy, close vent valve, close up engine compartment.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Woodhouse

[Tozerman]

😱👀 Fricking hell that is some write up. 

Thanks for sharing 😁

[Woodhouse]

11 minutes ago, Tozerman said:

😱👀 Fricking hell that is some write up. 

Thanks for sharing 😁

 

No problem.  I wish I'd taken photos along the way!  It is apparently possible to do it without disturbing the subframe but I knew I needed to get the geo sorted after the suspension work anyway.

 

It's a few years ago and my memory is a bit fuzzy but there's a plastic supporting clip for the crossover pipes which I mention in step 20.  I don't think I would have been able to get the pipes back into the clip without the extra clearance. 

 

I've heard of someone else doing it without touching the subframe by cutting the crossover pipes up to get them out and using cable ties instead of the proper plastic support clip so I guess that's an option if you're happy with the compromise.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Woodhouse
Clarification

[jim]

On 29/10/2020 at 22:54, redorblack said:

Thanks - the problem is finding a good indie Porsche specialist in NE Scotland.

get yourself down to Peter at Motortune in Shotts - plenty people from the NE travel down for his services

Edited October 31, 2020 by jim

[andygo]

I did it to mine without dropping the subframe as I mentioned earlier. Don't try it. The bits you need to get to behind the subframe are partially hidden, so you can see, but not touch or touch but cannot see. If you see what I mean.

 

Horrid job!

 

But what a great write up!

[zcacogp]

Having done this I can agree with all the comments. The only thing I will add is that it's worth buying all of the pipes for the front end before you start the job and return any you don't use afterwards. It's a pig of a job and I've no clue how it could be done without dropping the subframe. Having said that, if you lower the subframe on the bolts but don't remove them then I'm not sure why everyone says that you need to get it aligned afterwards as nothing is moved out of alignment. As it happens I did get an alignment check done a few months later and everything was fine at the front, furthering the notion that nothing had moved.