Aaron Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 On 21/06/2021 at 20:00, Matt_Chaps said: I spoke to the place I got my PPI done today - RPM Specialist in Harrogate - and they said they would call me back after speaking with the mechanic who did it. It’s odd, as they gave me a report with rev checks on it but no notes about the engine. Apparently the guy took it down the road twice and would have reported anything untoward. But then they were really busy and squeezed me in on the day and so I worry it wasn’t thorough now. Hopefully you’re right, and they aren’t concerned. But it’s a noticeable stutter, very regular too. Every 3-5 seconds and shakes the car a bit. I’m now looking into getting another Indy to do an inspection and look into it – AutoFarm or Parr – but very frustrating as it’s not the only thing they would have missed. There were a few other bits. I get they’re older cars and maintenance to be expected! But it’s more that these are things I’d hoped to go into the negotiation knowing, as I couldn’t view it in person. A stutter that you can feel in your back/butt or one that you can feel in your hands on the wheel? The former is perfectly normal; the latter should be cause for concern as that's significant enough vibration to shake the rack and would be more like a misfire. Engines don't actually idle bang on 500 RPM (or whatever their idle speed is specified as). They oscilate upwards and downwards, generally by 25-50 RPM in each direction. The idle is adjusted dynamically by the ECU controlling duty cycle of the idle control valve and ignition timing (retard to decrease RPM, advance to increase). Some engines idle better than others, and that is the nature of the beast. There's a transitive state whereby the engine warmup cycle is decaying and the AFR is getting closer to targeting stoich rather than rich and this can be when the idle is at its choppiest. I would recommend getting the car up to temp, giving it a good thrasing and then observing the idle behaviour. Cold idle is meaningless as target idle RPM is increased to get the cat up to temp as quickly as possible. Not to mention that a cold engine will struggle its hardest to idle at low RPM. There's also the idle reset procedure that you can follow: Remove the negative battery terminal, start the engine and let it idle for a good 5 minutes unattended (it's imperative that you do not press the throttle during this period). The idle should be much more stable; I would always recommend to do this following any mods or resolving any engine-related faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygo Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 On 23/06/2021 at 01:12, Aaron said: A stutter that you can feel in your back/butt or one that you can feel in your hands on the wheel? The former is perfectly normal; the latter should be cause for concern as that's significant enough vibration to shake the rack and would be more like a misfire. Engines don't actually idle bang on 500 RPM (or whatever their idle speed is specified as). They oscilate upwards and downwards, generally by 25-50 RPM in each direction. The idle is adjusted dynamically by the ECU controlling duty cycle of the idle control valve and ignition timing (retard to decrease RPM, advance to increase). Some engines idle better than others, and that is the nature of the beast. There's a transitive state whereby the engine warmup cycle is decaying and the AFR is getting closer to targeting stoich rather than rich and this can be when the idle is at its choppiest. I would recommend getting the car up to temp, giving it a good thrasing and then observing the idle behaviour. Cold idle is meaningless as target idle RPM is increased to get the cat up to temp as quickly as possible. Not to mention that a cold engine will struggle its hardest to idle at low RPM. There's also the idle reset procedure that you can follow: Remove the negative battery terminal, start the engine and let it idle for a good 5 minutes unattended (it's imperative that you do not press the throttle during this period). The idle should be much more stable; I would always recommend to do this following any mods or resolving any engine-related faults. How do you start the engine when you have removed the negative battery terminal? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 11 hours ago, andygo said: How do you start the engine when you have removed the negative battery terminal? Magic... It was 1am, forgive me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumac62 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Hi Matt. How's the car? Any update for us on the problem you were having with it? Just as an update from me. I went to see a 2.9 gen 2 (2011) this week at a dealers. Its got the PDK, sports chrono package, PASM, heated seats, 18" silver alloys, colour meteor grey. A very nice, near pristine car, but is 25k for one with 67,000 miles too much? Subjective I know, and prices have been on the rise since I started looking in March. Probably answering my own question by saying that I won't know if its a reasonable deal until I get a PPI done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyoz Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Stumac62 said: Hi Matt. How's the car? Any update for us on the problem you were having with it? Just as an update from me. I went to see a 2.9 gen 2 (2011) this week at a dealers. Its got the PDK, sports chrono package, PASM, heated seats, 18" silver alloys, colour meteor grey. A very nice, near pristine car, but is 25k for one with 67,000 miles too much? Subjective I know, and prices have been on the rise since I started looking in March. Probably answering my own question by saying that I won't know if its a reasonable deal until I get a PPI done. I'd want an S for that. Are PDK's fetching more than manuals...I though it used to be the other way round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumac62 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 42 minutes ago, Andyoz said: I'd want an S for that. Are PDK's fetching more than manuals...I though it used to be the other way round? Hi. Yep seems to be the PDK is more expensive. Just found a silver 2.9 gen 2 manual with only 26k on it and one owner only 30 mins from me. Going to book a test drive for today. Although that's £27,995! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Chaps Posted June 25, 2021 Author Share Posted June 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Stumac62 said: Hi. Yep seems to be the PDK is more expensive. Just found a silver 2.9 gen 2 manual with only 26k on it and one owner only 30 mins from me. Going to book a test drive for today. Although that's £27,995! Hey Stu, I had been watching the market for 3-4 months before buying and had lots of help from the guys as you will have read too. As a result of that, my take is: Market is strong so negotiating is tough but not impossible if private. But some dealers are really hamming up prices and I don’t think it represents value for what you’re getting from them. For example, one dealer talked to me about a 2.9 for £21k and I said I’d call back tomo. Next day it was suddenly £23k!! Some dealers seem fair but depends on spec and mileage. I concluded that you should take about £2k-£3k into consideration as an add on if buying from a dealer vs private. So that £28k 2.9 would be £25k privately? No chance!! Even at that mileage…and then also think about whether low mileage is def best was where my head was at, because I’d read that things can seize over time if not greatly used. I may be wrong! To be honest, I agree with Andy - I’d want a 3.4 S for around the £25/26k mark. And low mileage one for £28k! I wouldn’t go for a 2.9 if it’s priced over £24k personally, and you can find higher mileage examples for as low as £18k. I know my 3.4 isn’t perfect at the mo but the extra 55hp will make up for it I’m sure :). If you also factor in a decent PPI with a private sale, the cost is still likely lower l, as long as you don’t mind no warranty. Still worth the test drive of course!! And the meteor grey looks stunning in the flesh. Keep us posted on how you get on with the test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Chaps Posted June 25, 2021 Author Share Posted June 25, 2021 On 23/06/2021 at 01:12, Aaron said: A stutter that you can feel in your back/butt or one that you can feel in your hands on the wheel? The former is perfectly normal; the latter should be cause for concern as that's significant enough vibration to shake the rack and would be more like a misfire. Engines don't actually idle bang on 500 RPM (or whatever their idle speed is specified as). They oscilate upwards and downwards, generally by 25-50 RPM in each direction. The idle is adjusted dynamically by the ECU controlling duty cycle of the idle control valve and ignition timing (retard to decrease RPM, advance to increase). Some engines idle better than others, and that is the nature of the beast. There's a transitive state whereby the engine warmup cycle is decaying and the AFR is getting closer to targeting stoich rather than rich and this can be when the idle is at its choppiest. I would recommend getting the car up to temp, giving it a good thrasing and then observing the idle behaviour. Cold idle is meaningless as target idle RPM is increased to get the cat up to temp as quickly as possible. Not to mention that a cold engine will struggle its hardest to idle at low RPM. There's also the idle reset procedure that you can follow: Remove the negative battery terminal, start the engine and let it idle for a good 5 minutes unattended (it's imperative that you do not press the throttle during this period). The idle should be much more stable; I would always recommend to do this following any mods or resolving any engine-related faults. Hey Aaron, really appreciate the detailed reply. It’s a stutter mainly at my back but it does shake the whole car. I spoke to the garage who did the PPI and they said they’d taken it for an 8 mile test drive and also sat at idle, picked up nothing. We spoke for about 45 mins and the guy there is doing some interesting research on bore scoring in gen 2s (not that he is suggesting that’s what’s happening nor that it’s as bad as gen 1 bore scoring) and how the fuel injectors could play a part if clogged up with carbon deposits. Fuel is therefore less of a mist and more a jet direct onto the piston crowns, makes coil packs work harder etc etc. There’s currently no way to service them, only bin and replace and this is what they’re looking into. Anyway, his advice was the same as yours - take it for a spirited drive with a full tank and then see what happens to the idle. I’ve not been well for the last two weeks since I bought the car so haven’t been able to do that yet but this weekend I’m feeling much better so will get out onto some twisties. I’ll report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyoz Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Stumac62 said: Hi. Yep seems to be the PDK is more expensive. Just found a silver 2.9 gen 2 manual with only 26k on it and one owner only 30 mins from me. Going to book a test drive for today. Although that's £27,995! If I was paying that sort of premium for a 987.2 I would be going for the manuals...but then again I don't have to drive in traffic. As these weekend fun cars? A flat 6 really is a delight to dance around on the pedals with and a manual car is also 20kg+ lighter - just saying If you're actually going to put a good few miles on them over the years, I bet the next buyer will be wondering about the PDK. They are meant to be rock solid but it doesn't take much to spook a Porsche buyer once the miles are up. I've also noticed some dealers putting their prices UP after a week or so...we really are in Bat s**t crazy mode here. I've actually seen Private sellers trying to follow that trend. If they aren't careful, they will be holding those cars coming into early autumn...if cars can rise this quickly then they can also fall equally fast...we are in a perfect storm ATM and it will pass. Buyers are starting to Boycott the market...no one actually NEEDS a Porsche right now/immediately at the end of the day right? If it was me, I would be using it as a chance to sample another car make for 6 months as I really think Porsches are the hottest brand price wise ATM. I just think it's the go to brand for the casual sports car buyer and Covid has bought that type out from under the bushes en masse.. Edited June 25, 2021 by Andyoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumac62 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, Andyoz said: If I was paying that sort of premium for a 987.2 I would be going for the manuals...but then again I don't have to drive in traffic. As these weekend fun cars? A flat 6 really is a delight to dance around on the pedals with and a manual car is also 20kg+ lighter - just saying If you're actually going to put a good few miles on them over the years, I bet the next buyer will be wondering about the PDK. They are meant to be rock solid but it doesn't take much to spook a Porsche buyer once the miles are up. I've also noticed some dealers putting their prices UP after a week or so...we really are in Bat s**t crazy mode here. I've actually seen Private sellers trying to follow that trend. If they aren't careful, they will be holding those cars coming into early autumn...if cars can rise this quickly then they can also fall equally fast...we are in a perfect storm ATM and it will pass. Buyers are starting to Boycott the market...no one actually NEEDS a Porsche right now/immediately at the end of the day right? If it was me, I would be using it as a chance to sample another car make for 6 months as I really think Porsches are the hottest brand price wise ATM. I just think it's the go to brand for the casual sports car buyer and Covid has bought that type out from under the bushes en masse.. Hi Andy. It's all very frustrating for me as I've made my mind up I want a Cayman and it's hard to sit tight until (hopefully) prices fall again. I think I missed out on a few good ones due to my dithering a few months ago too which makes it more frustrating but totally my own fault. Edited June 26, 2021 by Stumac62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyoz Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stumac62 said: Hi Andy. It's all very frustrating for me as I've made my mind up I want a Cayman and it's hard to sit tight until (hopefully) prices fall again. I think I missed out on a few good ones due to my dithering a few months ago too which makes it more frustrating but totally my own fault. I know, the want is bad... It was only just over a year ago there was a private seller of a sub 50k mile 987.2 Cayman S on Pistonheads saying he was annoyed he only got £16k for it. Edited June 26, 2021 by Andyoz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumac62 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Andyoz said: I know, the want is bad... It was only just over a year ago there was a private seller of a sub 50k mile 987.2 Cayman S on Pistonheads saying he was annoyed he only got £16k for it. Wow, 16k!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24057 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Andyoz said: I know, the want is bad... It was only just over a year ago there was a private seller of a sub 50k mile 987.2 Cayman S on Pistonheads saying he was annoyed he only got £16k for it. That was criminally cheap even back then tbh. 987.2 Caymans have gone up in price, but not by that much. I’d say the average asking price is only up about £3k from last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian987 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 3 hours ago, Stumac62 said: Wow, 16k!!! If Cat C doesn't bother you, and if recall correctly PDK is what you are after? then this is a good deal https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11889664 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennym1984 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 3 hours ago, Julian987 said: If Cat C doesn't bother you, and if recall correctly PDK is what you are after? then this is a good deal https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11889664 Hmmmm.... I don't think I'd buy that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian987 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Lennym1984 said: Hmmmm.... I don't think I'd buy that I think this is the one for you. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106244213426? huge spec (including extended leather dash/doors) and limited edition, fair mileage. Thats the one surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennym1984 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, Julian987 said: I think this is the one for you. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106244213426? huge spec (including extended leather dash/doors) and limited edition, fair mileage. Thats the one surely? I already have one. My point on the last one was that 16k for a written off car (especially a Cat C/S) just doesn't sound great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian987 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Ah I meant that one for Stumac, I'm losing track of who's looking for what spec! https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106244213426? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24057 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Julian987 said: Ah I meant that one for Stumac, I'm losing track of who's looking for what spec! https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106244213426? That’s lovely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian987 Posted June 26, 2021 Share Posted June 26, 2021 At that £30K threshold, bar the blue R (which I recall Stumac didn't want an R) then that black edition is the best S on the market. As Black Editions go, the spec on it is the highest I have ever seen on the PDK variant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now