Porker Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Another tyre to argue over, PSS replacement... http://blog.caranddriver.com/michelin-launches-new-king-of-all-tires-the-pilot-sport-4-s/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushman Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I need a tyre set too, mine came with Bridgestones, stones being the operative word, Its jars if I run over a cigarette paper. was told by a 911 owner to switch to pilot SS or PS2s. these will soften the ride and improve the grip, according to him. the new PS4S tyre looks good but not launched till early next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrik Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I know this an oldish thread but thought I'd add my thoughts... All this talk of only fitting N rated tyres is a red herring & imo a complete croc of shite!! I replaced my Mich Pilot Super Sports with the Yokohama Advan AD08R & the grip/feel/confidence is leaps ahead of the Michelin''s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trickle Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I think you need to separate the ‘N’ argument away from tyre performance, because the two are unrelated. That’s just a Porsche requirement and certainly not a red herring, it’s just a plain fact. Porsche require that you fit them for warranty purposes ultimately. You could argue that with Porsche but you won’t get anywhere. Can you fit non-N rated tyres on a Porsche, yes of course but being aware of the potential risks of doing so. On the latter point, I’d agree that the AD08 is a very good track tyre (better than an MPSS for track) that you can run on the road, but I’d never put them on my Cayman as a pure road car, the Michelin is without doubt a superior road only tyre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpannerMan Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 The correct comparison to make surely would be the Michelin Cup2 - i.e. a road legal track oriented tyre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty1 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Michelin PS4S work pretty well on track in 19" sizes and are particularly impressive in the wet and probably the best all rounder for road and occasional track imo, no doubt Cup 2's would be even better in the dry on track. I like the look of AD08r's but seeing as mine is still mostly a road car they looked a bit too dry/track focused to work well in winter months on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Jamie McWhir - technical manager at Michelin and prior FI tyre technician for them - explained to me how "N" marked tyres differ from the generic tyre. You could have a generic PS4S and "N0" PS4S but they aren't the same. The Porsche marked tyre has been developed for and with Porsche to their specific requirements and tested to ensure it meets their requirements. Or... he's telling me a load of old bull? But then Dave Mullin at Goodyear and Sam Taylor at Pirelli have explained exactly the same to me, including the difference in physical dimensions, i.e. a 235 wide generic tyre may be wider (or narrower) than a 235 "N" marked tyre as the latter is made to a more precise spec whereas generic tyres are allowed to be within wider tolerances. I spoke to Dave years ago when I had my Audi TTS... He told me all tyres are made in accordance with the ETRTO rules: http://www.etrto.org/page.asp?id=1690&langue=EN This means a generic non-AO 255 35 19 tyre is allowed to be up to around 270mm wide, and is also the reason he receives dozens of calls from Audi owners about wheel arch rubbing on some models, as owners have bought generic tyres and not AO marked ones. AO tyres are manufactured to Audi's own spec to meet their performance, noise, and comfort criteria and also so as to fit within the wheel arches! So a 255 wide tyre can be up to 4% narrower to accommodate this AND still be within the ETRTO rules. With AO tyres he doesn't get calls about wheel arch rubbing. So, apart from warranty considerations, there are some other real reasons to stick with "N" marked tyres perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrik Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 I'd agree for road use but I'd rather have a tyre that was more engineered for the track than street tbh... A similar debate goes around the motorcycle forums I'm on regarding the pros & cons of street biased rubber vs track biased... Each to their own 'n' all that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayman R Paul Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 On 23/08/2018 at 18:01, DJMC said: Jamie McWhir - technical manager at Michelin and prior FI tyre technician for them - explained to me how "N" marked tyres differ from the generic tyre. You could have a generic PS4S and "N0" PS4S but they aren't the same. The Porsche marked tyre has been developed for and with Porsche to their specific requirements and tested to ensure it meets their requirements. Or... he's telling me a load of old bull? But then Dave Mullin at Goodyear and Sam Taylor at Pirelli have explained exactly the same to me, including the difference in physical dimensions, i.e. a 235 wide generic tyre may be wider (or narrower) than a 235 "N" marked tyre as the latter is made to a more precise spec whereas generic tyres are allowed to be within wider tolerances. I spoke to Dave years ago when I had my Audi TTS... He told me all tyres are made in accordance with the ETRTO rules: http://www.etrto.org/page.asp?id=1690&langue=EN This means a generic non-AO 255 35 19 tyre is allowed to be up to around 270mm wide, and is also the reason he receives dozens of calls from Audi owners about wheel arch rubbing on some models, as owners have bought generic tyres and not AO marked ones. AO tyres are manufactured to Audi's own spec to meet their performance, noise, and comfort criteria and also so as to fit within the wheel arches! So a 255 wide tyre can be up to 4% narrower to accommodate this AND still be within the ETRTO rules. With AO tyres he doesn't get calls about wheel arch rubbing. So, apart from warranty considerations, there are some other real reasons to stick with "N" marked tyres perhaps? I would dearly love to know what Porsche's requirements are for N rating. My other half has a 991 C4S which came with Pirelli P Zero N0s on it. To say they were appalling in the wet would be being kind. In the dry they were vaguely acceptable but I managed to out corner that car in my Mondeo on a wet roundabout one day. So while I'm sure Mr Michelin and Mr Pirelli etc are telling the truth, it's only a tiny part of the story. For some context, the previous 911 C4S had been Michelin shod and they were superb in the wet. Unless Porsche decided the N rated tyres for some of its models should give sub GT86 levels of grip, perhaps? Because in the wet they were pure comedy handling. My Cayman runs non N rated. They are better than the most recent N rated tyres which they replaced. And I have a 2nd set of wheels for trips to the dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk1 Posted August 27, 2018 Share Posted August 27, 2018 Agree, it would be good to know the complete technicalities behind the N process. As a visual comparison ... I have both N and non N versions of the same size Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 ... there is a definite physical difference in one of the sidewalls. I`ll get some photos later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJMC Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 On 27/08/2018 at 15:46, Cayman R Paul said: I would dearly love to know what Porsche's requirements are for N rating. My other half has a 991 C4S which came with Pirelli P Zero N0s on it. To say they were appalling in the wet would be being kind. In the dry they were vaguely acceptable but I managed to out corner that car in my Mondeo on a wet roundabout one day. So while I'm sure Mr Michelin and Mr Pirelli etc are telling the truth, it's only a tiny part of the story. For some context, the previous 911 C4S had been Michelin shod and they were superb in the wet. Unless Porsche decided the N rated tyres for some of its models should give sub GT86 levels of grip, perhaps? Because in the wet they were pure comedy handling. My Cayman runs non N rated. They are better than the most recent N rated tyres which they replaced. And I have a 2nd set of wheels for trips to the dealer. You make a good point, and I agree the OEM PZeros on my 981 were dire, hard, slippery things. BUT... after a short while they started cracking and a Pirelli engineer came to my home ad decreed the rubber compound was faulty and paid for the Goodyears I'd already fitted as replacements. I wonder if Pirelli had a large number of faulty PZeros, which were also the ones so often complained about in respect of their performance? It would make sense of a Porsche marked and supposedly superior tyre being utter crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayman R Paul Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 19 hours ago, DJMC said: You make a good point, and I agree the OEM PZeros on my 981 were dire, hard, slippery things. BUT... after a short while they started cracking and a Pirelli engineer came to my home ad decreed the rubber compound was faulty and paid for the Goodyears I'd already fitted as replacements. I wonder if Pirelli had a large number of faulty PZeros, which were also the ones so often complained about in respect of their performance? It would make sense of a Porsche marked and supposedly superior tyre being utter crap. Yeah I have read of the PZeros cracking and being replaced but in the case of the OTs 911 the tyres never cracked, they were just a bit useless. Due to them being the only N rated tyres being available at the time, the PZero N0s werre replaced by PZero N1s. These are vastly superior, but, still not as good as the PS2s on our old 997. Now the PS4S comes N rated in the sizes it needs so that will be the next set that go on. But yeah, even the 'good' PZeros on that car aren't especially great, particularly in the wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk1 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 235/35 x 19 91Y XL Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2`s ... Non N rated vs. N0 rated Non N rated = on CR wheel Non N rated has rim protection inside & outside (dated 4415) N0 has no rim protection (dated 2915) = a more uniform sidewall curvature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayman R Paul Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 56 minutes ago, Mk1 said: 235/35 x 19 91Y XL Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2`s ... Non N rated vs. N0 rated Non N rated = on CR wheel Non N rated has rim protection inside & outside (dated 4415) N0 has no rim protection (dated 2915) = a more uniform sidewall curvature Any comments on difference in terms of drive between them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk1 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Paul, I did not drive on the N0`s. The set that I purchased were mixed, front N rated / rears non N rated. I replaced the fronts given that I was taking them on track plus one of the N0 fronts had a (correct) puncture repair. The set of non N rated performed superbly on the Anglesey (PCGB) track day trip last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayman R Paul Posted August 31, 2018 Share Posted August 31, 2018 Ah right then. I'm just curious about this whole N rating thing and anything that nay shed some more light on it. I'm certainly not regretting my decision to ditch the N rated tyres on my R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now