Gen 1 or Gen 2 purchase?

[L33BGS]

Hi,

 

I'm new to the forum and looking to get some advise from Cayman owners. I looking to purchase my first Cayman, its been a consideration for many years but now is the right time. I've been doing my initial research into the car as this is my first Porsche purchase and I want to go into it with my eyes open and consider all options. 

 

Budget is a key factor, with a strict 17-19k limit, based on this I have been looking at a late Gen 1 (S model) or a Gen 2 (base model), both options with mileage between 70-90k. I read the horror stories of the engine issues with the Gen 1 but really not sure what to believe? Either route I take there will be a budget for maintenance etc... 

 

I'm after some honest views on the following:

 

What's the better investment?

What should be avoided?

Is there a big difference between the base and S model (both Gen 1 and 2)?

Is the Gen 1 auto box any good? 

Is higher mileage ok if the history stacks up? 

 

Any info would be gratefully received, I know aspects of this would come down to personal preference but its good to get the opinion of others ;-) 

 

Thanks.

 

[Craiglm68]

Hi, and welcome!

 

You've opened Pandora's Box here , so belt in and hang on for the ride! I'll give my 2 bobs worth based on going through a similar process myself about 18 mths ago (note I'm less familiar with the gen 2 line up).

 

In no particular order:

- Purpose: think long and hard about what you're planning to used the car primarily  for (and how long you might want to keep it)....e.g. a track day focus  will delivery a different purchase to a Daily Driver requirement

- Investment; personally, I'd say park that concept, and go for the best car you can afford (condition, history, PPI etc) that puts a smile on your face and you enjoy driving....if you want an investment, buy a 959 :-). IAnecdotally, 've had my gen 1 CS for 18 mths now, and it's worth roughly the same as what I paid for it. There are opinions aplenty re which model will have future growth potential....I personally think it's way too early to tell, but a 3.4 in theory might have an edge.

- Budget; yours is healthy and as you say puts you into either a fine , late edition gen 1 CS with under 50K miles, or a fine early gen 2 Cayman (2.9l) , both with a nice smattering of options (circa 2007-2009 bandwidth).  Go out and drive both models  and  lots of them (I test drove 13 or 14 cars , mix of Caymans and Boxters, before buying....gives you perspective on what  a "good car" looks and feels like, as well as "bad" examples). You'll probably have cash left over if you purchase privately, conversely you might like the idea of paying more to a dealer and bagging a warranty or similar.

- Horror Stories: you'll have read reams of blurb about IMS and bore scoring....to put it in perspective, combining both issues together, it affected something like 4-6% of cars I believe  from 05-07 ish ( IMS was sorted in cars from 07/57 reg or thereabouts I believe). A pre purchase inspection (PPI)  should include a bore scope to reduces the risk as any early signs should be detectable....but as with most things in life, nothing is 100% guaranteed. And rumour has is a very small % of the gen 2 DFI engines have suffered some issues too.

- 2.7 V 3.4l: I've only test driven 2.7l Boxsters; they put a smile on my face, lovely sound, and in some ways you'll use more of the performance, more of the time compared to the 3.4. The smaller lump seems to be much less prone to scoring too (bearing in mind it's a small % to start with), but not necessarily less fun. Go and drive some, make your own comparison. Small hp difference b/w the 2.9 and 3.4 obviously,  I've not compared the 2 myself.

- Auto box Gen 1; personally , I wasn't  not a fan (unless you plan to spend most of your time pootling in traffic), 6 speed is a a fangreat box. Gen 2 PDK is lightyears ahead of the 5 speeder.

- Mileage: good question....higher mileage can mean good value for money IF miles racked up were via longer trips (not short stop start efforts ...the rev history/engine time logs can shed some light on this),  maintenance has been regular (ie not just once every 2yrs/20K miles), consumables you'd expect to be replaced, have been replaced (clutch, brakes etc). If you're buying for investment (refer my earlier opinion). you'd be looking at the lowest mileage possible. Problem is. cars that are not used regularly, exercised properly, are only driven to church on Sundays (you get the ideal here....)....these garage queens can prove as problematic as a high miler that's been abused/not looked after.

 

Trust the above hasn't put you to sleep! Seriously, don't lose too much sleep over this; test drive a lot of cars (in itself quite a nice way to spend time), be clear about what you're after and why, don't get hung up on a specific colour/options etc (unless you are happy to wait around for that Unicorn to arrive)...buy based on the condition, history, and of course have the car checked out professionally. Then do like the rest of us do, and enjoy our cars as regularly as possible...the cars are made to be driven. Good luck with the test drives.

[Peopleandcars]

I was in the same situation as you coming off a 986 Boxster 3.2S

 

I tried a Gen1 3.4S and a 2.9 gen 2 and liked the latter more..

 

It is true the issues with the M96 engines affected a small percent of the car...but with the 986 the IMS was in my head at every trip...that was a cheap car however so when I bought it I didnt really care much if IMS totaled or not

 

Spending more than 3 times what I paid forthe 986  it I preferred the newer 9a1 car to avoid any "surprise"

 

The engine is sweet and rev-hungry on the road which I enjoy ...and the car is way above my track skills anyway so I do not miss the power there...until I improve then I can always fit a Turbo kit  

 

Went for 6speed but can see the use of the PDK if you do a lot of track of or a lot of traffic

Edited October 11, 2018 by Peopleandcars

[twopointnine]

L33BGS,

When I was buying a used Cayman about 3 years ago I really wanted a 3.4S with PDK but ar £25k upwards they were beyond what I wanted to spend.

 

I decided I would buy a Gen 2 car due to the usual internet scare stories, so I bought a 2.9 Gen 2 manual which had a very good spec/history and had done 68k miles and was about £10k cheaper than an S. It was a very  nice car which I enjoyed driving on the road, hill climbs, and track. It sounded great and performed well. It’s only fault was the occasional cloud of smoke at start-up. There was no defined repeatable pattern to the smoke, which had in fact been reported by the original owner at about 55k miles - I had the air-oil separator replaced and used a slightly heavier oil which improved things a little before I sold it. I’ve heard of one other case of this smoking on a 2.9 Boxster - it’s more embarrassing than harmful as my car never used any oil. I did about 7.5k in that car, I found the clutch was a bit heavy, at 75k it was probably due a new one. I always had a nagging feeling that I should have bought an S.

 

 I bought a Gen 2 S PDK earlier this year and I love it, but I found the prices hadn’t dropped (for a good spec) since I bought the 2.9 (those prices have fallen). I considered an R but as the majority of my use is on the road I decided that an S with PASM gave me the ride comfort I wanted. For sensible road driving the S performance is no more necessary than that offered by the 2.9, but on a hillclimb my S has proven to be >2.5 seconds quicker due to more torque and quicker gear changes which was exactly what I wanted.

 

 I fully understand many owners preference for a manual gearbox, I find with the PDK that you lose track of which gear you’re in unless you look at the dashboard display whereas with a manual you can feel the gear leaver position.

 

Enjoy your search.

 

 

[Windymiller]

Welcome!

 

youll probably be none the wiser after we’ve all added our 2-pence worth ???

 

like others have said here really think about what you want from the car first. 

 

If its a daily commuter driver in stop start traffic, then auto would make greater sense. 

 

If its a wknd, high days and holidays / occasional track toy, then my preference is manual (there’s a level of engagement not even a PDK gives you - IMHO). 

 

I have a 987 gen2 3.4S (bought for wknd fun, track days and possibly long term future classic potential (would have got an R, but couldn’t afford it)) , but I also tried the (987 gen2) 2.9, and I think if all I wanted was a ‘first dip of a toe in the Porsche pond’, then for a daily driver with heaps of wknd fun factor, then a 2.9 manual would be more than enough car (on 18”

Cayman S wheels, In sapphire blue ???). 

 

I think the best advice from all on here so far is - drive every type, gen1 and 2, base and S, manual, tip and PDK, and then buy the very best example that you can afford of the version that you like the most. 

 

If if you’re close by, why not get to one of our meets and see the cars and speak to us in person. 

 

Shuttleworth airfield Sunday 21st. 

 

Happy hunting. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Windymiller

[Windymiller]

If you could stretch to this - OPC 2 year warranty....

https://www.porscheclubgb.com/Car-sales/Sell-a-porsche/Sellers/7c90e5e5-3b7c-4f2e-a1e3-fe6c6af73a6f/cayman-(987)-24v-s-7988272

[L33BGS]

Thanks all for the feedback, I wasn't expecting such a response, so really pleased to get all the different views and suggestions. 

 

To answer some of the questions:-

• I would be using the car as a daily driver, however I don't do daily miles, more very short trips or a bigger trip once or twice a month (+100 miles), so based on the mileage habit it will fall into a weekend car. 
• Based on some of the feedback and also based on general driving preference I'd be looking to favour the manual.
• Tracking the car isn't a priority for me, but 'driving' the car is, probably the biggest draw to the Cayman for me are the continuous comments around it being a drivers car, I've owned a few of the other cars that have been put into this category (Civic Type-R EP3, VW Golf R, VW Golf GTI, Audi TT) so keen to experience a Cayman.

I'm still stuck between the Gen 1 S or the Gen 2 base, the budget is set but it puts me between a Gen 1 S with some money aside incase of any horrors or a Gen 2, albeit some would say the 'safer' option but it would be higher mileage. One thing i'm discovering with the Gen 2 base is they are wearing only the 18' alloys in most cases, I'm very keen to get the 19' alloys, which is a given on the Gen 1 S, I could always add at a later date but an original second hand set isn't cheap and its unlikely I'll be ain a position to do it. Colour I'm not fussed about, nor the audio/nav options. 

 

Aside from testing all models, what are the things to look out for on the Gen 1 S's when looking to buy? I do want to keep my options open on these, I do feel there is just a little more risk of getting bitten. 

 

@Windymiller thanks for the link, stunning car, however over the budget, even if I begged, borrowed and stole I'd still be a good few grand short, that one is a reach too far, shame. Thanks for the meet invite also.

 

Below are some links of a few cars I've be looking at just so you can see where I'm pitching my search.

 

http://www.thboler.com/used-cars/9173434-porsche-cayman-24-v/

https://www.wyevalleyssangyong.co.uk/used/porsche/cayman/34-s-2dr/ross-on-wye/herefordshire/18569646/?quid=ccd59b0e-12c2-4cf3-b852-8ed398a87d65#top-image

 

I'll keep you posted on my progress, thanks again all for your comments, really helpful.

 

 

[twopointnine]

You may find that 19” wheels give a firmer ride than you’d really like. There are advocates for 17” wheels on these cars, I’ve tried both and found that the 17”s give a less jolly ride, but the 19”s look better.

 

The Boler car in your link has some of the options which I would want, proper climate control, rear parking sensors, and sport button which changes the way the throttle responds. At 80+k miles it may have, or be due for a new clutch. At 76k the clutch on my 2.9 had become a bit firm which I was told was an indication that it might be due for a change.

 

Do you have to buy from a dealer or are you looking at private sales as well?

[L33BGS]

Cheers @twopointnine, good to know regarding the clutch and something I'll look out for. In answer to your question, no I don't have to buy from a dealer but I'd been considering dealers for some aspect of warranty even if it is for a limited time.

 

The larger wheels would be my preference, the firm ride doesn't worry me (it would my wife but she'll only drive it if she had to) and I think they do enhance the looks. 

[PMGPete]

I was in exactly the same position as you and ended up with a gen 1 2.7 with low mileage and a big spec.

 

I owned a 996 before this and those horror stories really ruin the experience with the car, every time you are out it's in the back of your mind and you never truly enjoy driving it hard.  Mine did actually pop and it was just a really sour experience. So if your in doubt about it now before you even get the car it's something to consider.

 

The higher mileage gen2 cars were all absolute base spec cars that cosmetically were poor.

 

The spec might not be of importance to you but resale on Porsches can be challenging if the cars don't have the right miles, history and spec.

 

So TL:DR don't knock a low mileage 2.7 gen 1 with nice spec.  I'm glad I made the choice I did.

[L33BGS]

Apologies for the late response on this post but I wanted to thank everyone for the great information. Reason for the delay, I did manage to make a decision and bought and Gen 1 Cayman S which I've been spending the last few months getting to grips with. 100% have the bug now. Thanks @Woodhouse for making the purchase pain free, the car is great.

[Craiglm68]

On 06/01/2019 at 21:26, L33BGS said:

Apologies for the late response on this post but I wanted to thank everyone for the great information. Reason for the delay, I did manage to make a decision and bought and Gen 1 Cayman S which I've been spending the last few months getting to grips with. 100% have the bug now. Thanks @Woodhouse for making the purchase pain free, the car is great

.

Well done and congrats, you won't look back!

[Windymiller]

On 06/01/2019 at 21:26, L33BGS said:

Apologies for the late response on this post but I wanted to thank everyone for the great information. Reason for the delay, I did manage to make a decision and bought and Gen 1 Cayman S which I've been spending the last few months getting to grips with. 100% have the bug now. Thanks @Woodhouse for making the purchase pain free, the car is great.

Great news and welcome. If you’ve bought one of Woodhouse’s former Caymans you’ve bagged a good un there 👍🏻

[Mavrik]

@L33BGS

 

I gather you bought this? Seems like a kosher S.1 ... Enjoy 😁

 

[Woodhouse]

Actually it was my Guards Red one, which I didn't openly advertise for sale.  Missing it badly, if I'm honest.  The 981 is obviously newer and better on paper but 9 months in, I haven't warmed to it like the 987.

[L33BGS]

@Mavrik this is the one. 

[Mavrik]

@L33BGS Wow! I absolutely love the Guards Red! They seem to be like rocking horse shite though?!?

[Martin Hamilton]

this is a great thread and very helpful

 

my heart wants a 987.1 S but my brain is screaming about the IMS and scoring -- I am giving back a car that I was paying good money for to only do 5000 miles in 3 years so I want to keep the cost down where ever possible and not tie up cash

 

I looked at a 987,1 S special edition with 40k on the clock for £18k yesterday from a specialist - it really ticked all the boxes.... he keeps phoning me to take it for a drive

 

I worry if I buy a 987.2 non S I will always be thinking if I did the right thing

[L33BGS]

The advice I was given was to go with the most mechanically sound car you can find, not to get too hung up on the spec. Also that the IMS problem was on very early models (2005-). I was looking at a Gen 2 non S originally and would not have ruled it out. If you have looked at the Gen 1 S special edition then already you are open to buying one. If you are really interested in the car then see if you can have it bore scoped, I believe mine was done when purchased by the previous owner. I'm relatively new to the Cayman scene, so can't give too much more advice, but there are some really knowledgable guys on here that would be more than happy to share some insights.

 

The only other thing I'd say, regardless of Gen 1 or 2, just have a contingency fund, just incase of anything, I know its easier said than done, but suggest factoring that into your budget. Happy Hunting.

[Craiglm68]

On 20/01/2019 at 18:31, Martin Hamilton said:

this is a great thread and very helpful

 

my heart wants a 987.1 S but my brain is screaming about the IMS and scoring -- I am giving back a car that I was paying good money for to only do 5000 miles in 3 years so I want to keep the cost down where ever possible and not tie up cash

 

I looked at a 987,1 S special edition with 40k on the clock for £18k yesterday from a specialist - it really ticked all the boxes.... he keeps phoning me to take it for a drive

 

I worry if I buy a 987.2 non S I will always be thinking if I did the right thing

TAKE IT FOR A DRIVE!