Decat & Air Quality Issues

[Aaron]

4 hours ago, eponymoose said:

Decat, incidentally, would be a local air quality issue, not a climate change issue. Decat would mean you car would emit more poisonous material regarding air quality and health. But it wouldn't make any material difference regarding its contribution to climate change.

 

Yes, on an individual basis, but not as a collective.  That's why I said, "we can each do our part."

 

This is true for any contribution that is afflicted by a single individual everyday.  One person making a change is but an inconvenience, yet millions of people can be a mighty old statistic.

[Windymiller]

18 minutes ago, Aaron said:

 

Yes, on an individual basis, but not as a collective.  That's why I said, "we can each do our part."

 

This is true for any contribution that is afflicted by a single individual everyday.  One person making a change is but an inconvenience, yet millions of people can be a mighty old statistic.

“Every ‘big’ helps...”

Sir David John Cameron MacKay FRS FInstP FICE 
 

https://www.withouthotair.com/c19/page_114.shtml

[Andyoz]

Notwithstanding the fact that if any of us here REALLY cared about the environment would we be driving relatively large displacement NA engined cars in the first place?

Edited January 27, 2021 by Andyoz

[Windymiller]

25 minutes ago, eponymoose said:

 

In really broad terms, I'd argue if you really  want to be super careful / caring about your person carbon footprint you wouldn't be driving any car, at all, 

nor eating 1 of the 990million farmed cows per year (each requiring 9gals of water per day). 
 

nor use plastic products. 
 

nor unnecessarily replace your mobile phone every 2yrs for the latest and newest ‘better’ model. 
 

nor constantly over consume unnecessary consumer products.

 

nor throw away and replace, rather than repair, reuse or repurpose. 
 

nor just landfill all waste. 

 

etc etc etc...

 

We should all do as much as we can to preserve this one (and only one!) small planet for as long as humanly possible. 
 

I work in large scale renewables and do wrestle with my social conscience as an owner of a 3.4ltr ICE ‘play thing’ - but assuage it through the fact that my 6k miles per year in the cayman are offset by my use of public transport for daily commuting (COVID notwithstanding). And the annual carbon saving from electricity production by the nearly 3GW of offshore wind that I’ve been part of the construction of these past 11 years certainly offsets the ~1,500kg of Co2 that my car produces per year. 
 

(And I love my new vegan cook book 😉👍🏻). 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Windymiller
Typo 🙄

[Craiglm68]

Nicely put W Man!

[Beanoir™]

For a moment there I thought I was still at work... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stephen Auty]

Nicely put Windymiller

I once worked it out how much Jet A fuel is burned per person to fly to Australia in an A380

The A380 carries approx 860 passengers , could carry way more if certain people gave up their private 1st class room and sat in a normal seat.

If I remember correctly and I probably don't I think it was about 450L per one way trip so 900L return pp.

I did work out the mpg pp and it was roughly 40mpg pp. 

Sounds OK but like you say it's a huge amount of fuel. We use about 1500L Oil/yr to heat our house in Scotland to put in perspective.

Flying is too cheap imo , a trip to Aus should be a once in 10yr occasion and some sort of Carbon Credit scheme for every one on the planet , which can be traded for those that don't fly might work. 

 

"when you coming out again" say's my brother in Michigan...as though they live in Yorkshire..crazy

[Stephen Auty]

Just done the calcs again and they are fairly good.

A380 burns a staggering 12t metric of fuel /hr (1254L fuel = 1t) 

Flight is approx 22hrs (London to Sidney) so burns 22x12t = 264t of fuel or 331,056L 

Divided by 860 = 385 L pp  1 way or 770L pp return

 

it's 10500miles which works out at 123mpg pp  (I think) 

 

5000miles  @ 25mpg = 900L pa in your Cayman 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Stephen Auty

[Stephen Auty]

just a bit more..

Jet A cost £0.32 / L so cost of fuel is approx £100k 

What does a ticket to Sydney cost? 860 passengers even at £1k each is quite a profit but can't add up as they're stopping production /sales of the A380 , too expensive to fly unless it's full to capacity always.

[Stephen Auty]

Another bit of useless info

 

Apparently they rarely carry 860 passengers , usually 500 so almost twice the fuel 700L pp each way and half the mpg pp too.. 

[Andyoz]

There was a day in July 2019 where 225,000 planes took off worldwide.

 

l'm sure a decent whack of smug Tesla etc early adopters were the type to also fly more than the average persons business and holiday miles...

 

Virtue signaling to the max LOL

Edited February 4, 2021 by Andyoz

[Aaron]

Guys, I appreciate that the discussion is healthy and all but this has really derailed my thread.

 

@Beanoir™, could you do some magic and split some of this off?

[Hunter]

I'm never sure why caring about an issue has to be all-or-nothing.

 

Both "idealists" and the average joe seem to have this strange idea that, if you don't walk everywhere and plant trees in your spare time, it's all for nothing. Idealists push away potential "allies" for their cause, and average joe decides that flying everywhere, eating meat, and washing his last oil change down the drain are all okay to do, because "eh what the hell, I couldn't really care about the environment: I drive a sports car!".

 

And why has there got to be some other guy who (might) be doing things worse? Who cares if the jet-taking businessman takes jets—even if their new EV is just a fashion accessory to them, it's a fashion accessory that harms people less than a new V12 on the road. Nobody said they were a better person!

 

We have to look for improvements. Realistically, we can't tell everybody to stop driving, we can't tell everybody to stop flying, and we can't tell everybody to stop importing anything.

 

We can encourage people to drive more economically: fewer miles, or with a more efficient car. Talking about wrecking old cars is a strawman: getting people who would otherwise buy a new ICE car to purchase an EV instead is good for us all. And I haven't said here that EVs have no environmental impact, but they have a much lower footprint, especially as countries produce more of their electricity from sources that aren't fossil fuels.

 

We can encourage people to fly less and/or more economically. Stop-overs (vs direct flights), trips that could be replaced by train journeys, and trips which are unnecessary altogether all add to our impact.

 

We can encourage people to buy more responsibly. Windy covered things nicely above—repair vs replace, buy less meat, waste less of what you do buy.

 

I drive a 3.4L sports car. Fine, my cats happen to be on, but I'm in the highest tax bracket for a reason, and my enormous quantity of break dust isn't helping anybody. Yet I still care about the environment, and driving the car I do doesn't stop me from making other life choices that go the right way.

 

Being a terrible environmentalist is still better than being apathetic.